EQ subs with mains running full range - Home Theater Forum and Systems - HomeTheaterShack.com

 
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post #1 of 7 Old 05-27-15, 01:07 AM Thread Starter
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brandon
 
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EQ subs with mains running full range

in the past I've always ran my 2ch fronts crossed over at around 80hz then use REW and my BFD to get a nice flat in room response. If I were to grab a preamp without the ability to cross over my mains and run them full range,, how difficult would it be to get a decent room response? Phase and cancellations will likely be tough to overcome right?

I just can't decide if the better sound quality of a different preamp is more or less beneficial than my current preamp that has crossover options???
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post #2 of 7 Old 05-27-15, 12:53 PM
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Re: EQ subs with mains running full range

You don't mention brands or model numbers, so I'll compile a generic reply:

Answering your last question first, I think any benefits of a "better" sounding preamp will be lost along with the crossover function. Assuming your current preamp is capable of amplifying source signals without significant distortion, is a new one really better, or just different? Any preamp differences that do exist will be small. Differences with and without crossover tuning will be huge.

How difficult it is to get decent response will depend on how much time you're willing to spend with speaker/sub positioning. Without crossovers, in-room response will change, as will relative phase/timing between speakers and subs. As you probably already know, bass will be the hardest to tame. Reinforcements can be pulled-down with EQ, but cancellations will need trapping. Then again, even the best traps are only good down to 50Hz or so. The upside is that we're not that sensitive to narrow gaps in low frequencies, especially if the sweet spot is located away from them.

How far you want to take tuning depends on your priorities and hearing acuity. Irregular response can cause instruments to change size/location within the sound field. Very noticeable from the sweet spot. Not so much from the kitchen. Do your subs have any built in PEQ or crossover capability (speaker-level connection) that could substitute for the BFD and preamp functions, respectively?

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post #3 of 7 Old 05-27-15, 01:46 PM Thread Starter
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Re: EQ subs with mains running full range

Sorry I should have been more specific.....
Current preamp parasound P5
Amp parasound A21 for fronts
Yamaha CX-A5000 for HT
Out,aw 7 ch amp for all speakers except fronts
Ascend acoustics towers with RaAL
Dual 15" Rythmik subs

Looking at parasound JC2 BP preamp
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post #4 of 7 Old 05-27-15, 02:03 PM
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Re: EQ subs with mains running full range

If you dont have a crossover how are you getting the LFE .1 channel? if your thinking that using the High level inputs on the sub and running the mains full range is a good choice it is not as there truly is way to much information below 30Hz for mains to handle in movie soundtracks.

Home theater:
Onkyo 805, Yamaha YDP2006EQ, Samson Servo 600 amp
3 EV Sentry 500 monitors across the front, 4 Mission 762i's Surrounds, SVS PB13U sub, Panasonic BDT220, Harmony 1100, Nintendo WiiU
Panasonic PT-AE8000 on a 120" 2,35:1 fixed screen

Living room system:
Sherwood/Newcastle R972, Mission 765's, SVS SBS02's, A/D/S MS3u sub, Yamaha YDG2030EQ
Yamaha KX-393 Tape deck, CDC 805 CD changer, Panasonic BD60, Sony turntable PS-T20
Panasonic TC-P50ST60, HD-PVR & WDTV Live, Harmony 900

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post #5 of 7 Old 05-27-15, 02:37 PM Thread Starter
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Re: EQ subs with mains running full range

Quote:
tonyvdb wrote: View Post
If you dont have a crossover how are you getting the LFE .1 channel? if your thinking that using the High level inputs on the sub and running the mains full range is a good choice it is not as there truly is way to much information below 30Hz for mains to handle in movie soundtracks.
Currently the yamaha has sub outputs run through the P5 in HT bypass mode allowing the LFE signal to get to my subs. I do not use high level inputs.
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post #6 of 7 Old 05-27-15, 11:42 PM Thread Starter
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Re: EQ subs with mains running full range

Quote:
BlueRockinLou wrote: View Post
You don't mention brands or model numbers, so I'll compile a generic reply:

Answering your last question first, I think any benefits of a "better" sounding preamp will be lost along with the crossover function. Assuming your current preamp is capable of amplifying source signals without significant distortion, is a new one really better, or just different? Any preamp differences that do exist will be small. Differences with and without crossover tuning will be huge.

How difficult it is to get decent response will depend on how much time you're willing to spend with speaker/sub positioning. Without crossovers, in-room response will change, as will relative phase/timing between speakers and subs. As you probably already know, bass will be the hardest to tame. Reinforcements can be pulled-down with EQ, but cancellations will need trapping. Then again, even the best traps are only good down to 50Hz or so. The upside is that we're not that sensitive to narrow gaps in low frequencies, especially if the sweet spot is located away from them.

How far you want to take tuning depends on your priorities and hearing acuity. Irregular response can cause instruments to change size/location within the sound field. Very noticeable from the sweet spot. Not so much from the kitchen. Do your subs have any built in PEQ or crossover capability (speaker-level connection) that could substitute for the BFD and preamp functions, respectively?
Thank you for the detailed reply. I'm leaning towards sticking with my current preamp or one with XO/bass management. As you said, I will likely lose ground rather than gain by giving up the XO ability.
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post #7 of 7 Old 05-28-15, 09:07 AM
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Re: EQ subs with mains running full range

You're welcome, Brandon. Very nice preamps, by the way. You might want to look into room correction using a miniDSP DDRC-22A. Gains realized through room correction and/or acoustical treatment will trounce any gains seen through the upgrade you're considering. You'd want to stick with the analog version to avoid a last-in-chain A/D-D/A conversion step. The analog version offers similar performance to miniDSP's exceptional digital model DDRC-22D reviewed here. I glanced at prices and found that the roughly $900 miniDSP unit could potentially save you a lot of money.

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