back for more - full range this time

[Wayne A. Pflughaupt]

Basically I agree with weverb. The ~85 Hz hump is probably audible and should be tamed.

It's hard to tell since the graph stops at 5 kHz, but overall the mains seen to exhibit a gradual rise from ~200-5kHz. Most likely this is going to make the mains sound thin or shrill. The overall trend for the mains should be flat, or perhaps a gradual decline, in order to sound natural. You might want to take a look at Part 2 of my house curve article (there's a link to it in my signature). Fortunately, this would be easily to fix with the receiver's basic tone controls.

Regards,
Wayne

[wackii]

Yeah, It does look like I need to tame that 80-100hz region. Since the crossover is at 80hz, that region falls on my main speakers. Maybe I should move the crossover up to 100hz and re-measure the FR. If it still there then I can tame that using my BFD (hooked with the sub). A little more details info about my setup.

I'm running 5.1 system.
* sub is huge port (LLT)
* 3 diy front speakers and two small monitor as surrounds.
* receiver = pioneer 1014 (can't remember the exact model)
* all my speakers are plugged in the emotive amp = LPA 7 channels amp
* room are about 3000 cu feet = living room + kitchen
* current parametric eq = BFD1124
* using RS analog SPL meter
* mostly watch movies more than music (most of the time I like watching concerts dvd)

Hope this extra info can help you guys understand more about system. I'll see if I have some time to measure it again with different xover. I'll post some more graph soon

Thanks for the help guys.

Al,

[thewire]

wackii wrote:

Yeah, It does look like I need to tame that 80-100hz region. Since the crossover is at 80hz, that region falls on my main speakers. Maybe I should move the crossover up to 100hz and re-measure the FR. If it still there then I can tame that using my BFD (hooked with the sub). A little more details info about my setup.

I'm running 5.1 system.
* sub is huge port (LLT)
* 3 diy front speakers and two small monitor as surrounds.
* receiver = pioneer 1014 (can't remember the exact model)
* all my speakers are plugged in the emotive amp = LPA 7 channels amp
* room are about 3000 cu feet = living room + kitchen
* current parametric eq = BFD1124
* using RS analog SPL meter
* mostly watch movies more than music (most of the time I like watching concerts dvd)

Hope this extra info can help you guys understand more about system. I'll see if I have some time to measure it again with different xover. I'll post some more graph soon

Thanks for the help guys.

Al,

I have the same problem and near the same size room. Using the BFD and setting the crossover higher should help a great deal.

[wackii]

I got some measurements done tonight. I've noticed something is off with the xover on my reciever. See graphs below:

Subwoofer graph at crossover 100hz with no eq. From what I see, I think the xover is actually at 68hz and not 100hz (dip on that region). The peak is in 80-100hz region. I did try to tame down the subwoofer on that region 80-100hz. But my filter take no effect so I think the xover isn't really at 100hz but lower. Also, I tried to add some gain on 65hz region. Again nothing changed on that filter.


Subwoofer graph xover at 150hz. (Blue = no eq, Red = eq). Noticed the 80-100hz has dropped down a bit. Noticed the 65hz filter is improved this time.


Subwoofer graph 150hz xover with eq and smoothing. It looks like I got myself a house curve


Full Range xover 150hz with eqs through receiver. I manually set eq at 125hz, 300hz, 4k, 13k.
Light green orange = final eq; dark purple = no eq through receiver; bright purple = eq through receiver.


It looks like I got some positive progress through eqing from the receiver Fortunately, I can't localize the bass even though my crossover is at 150hz (probably off on receiver). I only have time to listen for about 15 mins though. I need to put some time listening to my system to see if the crossover at 150hz is suitable. Other than that the graph looks better

Al,

[thewire]

That looks so much like the response I had from last month besides bellow 25Hz I am amazed. I moved the mains further from the seats and closer to the side walls, then checked phase, adjusted speaker distances.. The 80Hz crossover is a bit like having stereo subs and can be a bit distracting. I thought 100Hz was alright but 150Hz was really eating into my subs headroom. Are you aiming your mic directly up?

[wackii]

thewire wrote:

That looks so much like the response I had from last month besides bellow 25Hz I am amazed. I moved the mains further from the seats and closer to the side walls, then checked phase, adjusted speaker distances.. The 80Hz crossover is a bit like having stereo subs and can be a bit distracting. I thought 100Hz was alright but 150Hz was really eating into my subs headroom. Are you aiming your mic directly up?

No, my mic is at 45 degree angle. Does the mic angle effect the measurements in full range? I agree about the 150hz crossover eating into sub's headroom. But I have a feeling that the crossover setting on my receiver is off. Is there a way to measure the crossover on my receiver? I remember reading some threads here showing that the his receiver's crossover was off as well. About my mains, there's really not enough room to move further back to the wall. I want the front baffle of my mains to be the same level as my tv.

Thanks for your inputs.

Al,

[weverb]

brucek told me something like this for testing xo:

http://www.hometheatershack.com/forums/rew-forum/12622-rew-noob-5.html#post115700

Don't know if it will help.

[thewire]

weverb wrote:

brucek told me something like this for testing xo:

http://www.hometheatershack.com/forums/rew-forum/12622-rew-noob-5.html#post115700

Don't know if it will help.

To test my crossover I input White Noise into the input I am looking at with the crossover on, and use the Spectrum Anylizer with no calc file loaded and the output of the receiver, media player, directly into the input of REW and see what happens. I calibrate using a sine wave of -20dB FS. You may have to note that -2dB FS is 0dB FS in REW. It should not read that high anyway. I used this to test some amps pass through etc also. It might not hurt to burn a CD with the Generator also and test the source input and outputs if they are different than what you use view movies, listen to music etc.

The White Noise should track the crossover slope, or the 12dB Octave one if using that, on the filters tab window.

[wackii]

weverb wrote:

brucek told me something like this for testing xo:

http://www.hometheatershack.com/forums/rew-forum/12622-rew-noob-5.html#post115700

Don't know if it will help.

Thanks for the link. I will give that a test.

Al,

[wackii]

thewire wrote:

To test my crossover I input White Noise into the input I am looking at with the crossover on, and use the Spectrum Anylizer with no calc file loaded and the output of the receiver, media player, directly into the input of REW and see what happens. I calibrate using a sine wave of -20dB FS. You may have to note that -2dB FS is 0dB FS in REW. It should not read that high anyway. I used this to test some amps pass through etc also. It might not hurt to burn a CD with the Generator also and test the source input and outputs if they are different than what you use view movies, listen to music etc.

The White Noise should track the crossover slope, or the 12dB Octave one if using that, on the filters tab window.

Sorry, I'm totally lost.

Al,