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post #11 of 15 Old 01-09-17, 09:57 PM
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Re: New to REW, difficulty calibrating and more questions

Quote:
Roughroom wrote: View Post
Hello,

I recently put up the last of my room treatment. Here are the results. After the problems I have had with room eq, I decided not to add a calibration file because my most recent ones are no better than the original.

What did change:

1) Additional Room treatment at the first reflection points on the sides of the wall, above the listening position, and directly behind the listening position. All absorption. I have some additional treatment spread out along the side walls.

2) Studio Monitors calibrated at 67.5dB. For some reason it seems that the measurement was recorded at a much higher amplitude than my monitors produced.

3) Measurement sweep was done at -20dB instead of -12. For some reason it was clipping at -12. Nothing has changed in my setup, so I figured it was not going to be the end of the world.

I am by no means fluent in analyzing this data, but from what I am looking at, there are dips at 60-80dB, 600-800dB, and 2k-5k? How much of this could be caused by the output level of my monitors? If this is just a reflection of my room, or the less than desirable placement of my monitors that I cannot fix, then I guess it is not worth adding additional treatment. (Although I have space for more basstraps along the wall my monitors are placed.) Furthermore, would diffusion be of value, or do you feel that I have hit the maximum amount of treatment before I begin to just chase my tail? Lastly, are these fluctuations are enough to warrant a corrective eq?
Your RT60 is getting very low through mid frequencies, I would not add more absorption.

The dips at 60-80 will only become horrible monsters if you try to boost them with EQ. Speaker/LP position change &/or truck-sized traps are the only fix for them. Guessing you have neither option, plus traps cannot just go where there is room, the cause must be determined and addressed in the right area of the room. (GIK would love to build you some of those truck-sized traps

Cause of the 620 Hz dips looks like reflection/cancellation, the reflected path length is about 0.9 ft longer than the direct path length, maybe your desk top? Or front wall, as mentioned, although that would be too long a reflected path. Look at your work surface. Only a guess.

You could put a parametric EQ stage on the 110 Hz peak (6 to 8 dB, same applied to both channels), on the 1.2 kHz peak (2 to 3 dB, same applied to both channels), and shelf down the broad area from 4k to 10k by 2 to 3 dB (same applied to both channels), and it would sound pretty good, I'll bet.

Edit: The 55 Hz difference is best left alone. They average out quite nicely.

Except for the 620 Hz, forget about fixing dips and focus on fixing peaks.
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post #12 of 15 Old 01-09-17, 11:13 PM Thread Starter
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Re: New to REW, difficulty calibrating and more questions

Thanks for the help.

Should I remove some absorption from my room, in comparison to the first measurement? If it isnt worth messing with it anymore, I am more than happy to call it quits, as it seems that my listening position is more of the problem at this point. If it would be best to remove some absorption, where would you suggest to remove it first? What I have added is placed above, behind, and to the sides. Would it be worth swapping some of my absorption for diffusion?

To the EQ:

Based on the levels of the spikes, are they drastic enough to warrant the suggested eq to monitor at the flattest response? I am currently away from my exact computer at the moment, so if I should take the time to adjust my templates with an eq on my stereo out bus for when I am working, I will. To double check if the eq choices match that of your suggestion, I have attached a picture with what I believe to be your suggested settings. Should I use sharper q's to isolate those specific frequencies? Since I have never used a corrective eq for monitoring purposes, I assume I turn these off for my mix-down.

Finally, how am I able to test my room with these eq settings, and is there a way to utilize these eq settings when I am not in my DAW, this way I can have a flatter response without having to be within a specific project?
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post #13 of 15 Old 01-09-17, 11:24 PM Thread Starter
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Re: New to REW, difficulty calibrating and more questions

Also for my sanity, why are my readings so high, in comparison to what my monitors are tuned to? Where do I find my reference point, looking at the graph, to determine what is a drastic peak/dip?
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post #14 of 15 Old 01-10-17, 07:43 PM
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Re: New to REW, difficulty calibrating and more questions


Quote:
Roughroom wrote: View Post
Based on the levels of the spikes, are they drastic enough to warrant the suggested eq to monitor at the flattest response?

Should I use sharper q's to isolate those specific frequencies?
The main problem I see is that everything above 1 kHz is too hot. I’d also recommend a broad shelving filter to bring it down.


Quote:
I have attached a picture with what I believe to be your suggested settings.
No, you do NOT want to mismatch filters above ~3-400 Hz for the two speakers. It’s fine to do that below that point, but above it, it will do strange things to the imagine.


Quote:
Since I have never used a corrective eq for monitoring purposes, I assume I turn these off for my mix-down.
Absolutely not. You are correcting your speaker’s EQ, you are attempting to smooth response as much as possible, with the goal being increased accuracy. You don’t want to negate that for your mixing – otherwise what’s the point of all this?


Quote:
Finally, how am I able to test my room with these eq settings, and is there a way to utilize these eq settings when I am not in my DAW, this way I can have a flatter response without having to be within a specific project?
Can’t help you there – I have outboard EQ for my computer speakers.


Quote:
Roughroom wrote: View Post
Also for my sanity, why are my readings so high, in comparison to what my monitors are tuned to?
You probably did not do the Calibrate SPL routine.


Quote:
Where do I find my reference point, looking at the graph, to determine what is a drastic peak/dip?
We’re typically looking for broad or sever trends. I’d say a peak or trough more than 5-6 dB, or a smaller one that’s very broad, should be looked at.

Regards,
Wayne




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post #15 of 15 Old 01-11-17, 01:58 PM
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Re: New to REW, difficulty calibrating and more questions

Quote:
Roughroom wrote: View Post
Should I remove some absorption from my room, in comparison to the first measurement? If it isnt worth messing with it anymore, I am more than happy to call it quits, as it seems that my listening position is more of the problem at this point. If it would be best to remove some absorption, where would you suggest to remove it first? What I have added is placed above, behind, and to the sides. Would it be worth swapping some of my absorption for diffusion?
I would probably leave it alone. The thing about going from absorption to diffusion is that it can end up diffusing the imaging of the system unless it is approached with care. If you like your imaging, and the overall sound of the room, then leave it alone. If you WANT it more live, then start moving to diffusion, but start at points farthest from the LP - in terms of the path from speaker to LP - most likely the rear wall, and carefully move forward from there. Again, unless you feel the need to, I would leave it alone.

Quote:
To the EQ:

Based on the levels of the spikes, are they drastic enough to warrant the suggested eq to monitor at the flattest response? I am currently away from my exact computer at the moment, so if I should take the time to adjust my templates with an eq on my stereo out bus for when I am working, I will. To double check if the eq choices match that of your suggestion, I have attached a picture with what I believe to be your suggested settings. Should I use sharper q's to isolate those specific frequencies? Since I have never used a corrective eq for monitoring purposes, I assume I turn these off for my mix-down.
As Wayne P suggests, less EQ is usually better than more. The fact you are EQing for your DAW complicates things. I had this problem a few years ago and it led to a second system for speaker EQ, which also served as my music server, and it was built from existing hardware lying around, so it was almost free. Not so for your situation, I am guessing.

Changing all your templates is a BIG pain, I tried that, too, and ended up modifying the thing every time I started a new project. If your DAW allows the use of a Sub bus, you can set it/them up as the monitor EQ point. Another possibility is use the MathAudio plugin, but it is not free. Delays are very small with that plugin.

In my opinion, you can live without the EQ for tracking, and you want it most for mixdown, when longer latency delays are not as disruptive. You can almost run raw for tracking with your response, it is not all that bad. Then add the EQ for mixdown.

The big peak at 110 Hz is the one I would do something about for tracking, and you might be able to do that with one of the Win utilities that takes place of the Windows sound mixer, like the Equalizer APO, or the mixer from VB audio (free or donationware, I believe). If you only need a couple of bands, that might be a cheap, effective, and low-latency way to get there. I have not used them myself, but I believe they would do what you want.

Before you start to EQ, always look at the measurements without smoothing so you can see exactly what needs to be attacked.

Also, I always think of frequencies above 10 kHz as gravy, if they are there, great, if not, let 'em go, don't try to EQ them back up.

Quote:
Finally, how am I able to test my room with these eq settings, and is there a way to utilize these eq settings when I am not in my DAW, this way I can have a flatter response without having to be within a specific project?
See above.
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