Comments on my first measurements?

**brucek** · **06-28-09, 01:50 PM**

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Any idea what that weird "blip" is about at 120Hz?

It would not be the receiver. It would be your computer and REW causing a small hitch in the signal sweep at that point.

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is it normal that I needed to crank my pre-pro's volume up to 95% to get the output and input levels even?

I would set the REW sweep level up to a higher level (~-6dB) to offer the receiver more voltage, so you won't have to turn its volume up so high during the test.

BTW, turn on the REW target @60Hz to observe how the receiver tracks. Match it's passband level to the target for a good comparison.

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Would you say brucek that this pointing to the sub as the problem with his graph variances?

The sub or the room. It's almost never the receiver...

brucek

**weverb** · **06-28-09, 02:04 PM**

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brucek wrote:

The sub or the room. It's almost never the receiver...

So now he should do a nearfield plot of the sub using the same testing he did post #34 correct? Basically place the mic a few inches from the driver and do the same sweeps in post #34 to see if it is the sub. This should help remove the room correct?

**brucek** · **06-28-09, 02:38 PM**

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So now he should do a nearfield plot of the sub using the same testing he did post #34 correct?

Yeah, that's correct, although doing it outside would be even better. I take it this is a servo type sub - so he wouldn't need to check a port nearfield.

brucek

**weverb** · **06-28-09, 02:57 PM**

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brucek wrote:

Yeah, that's correct, although doing it outside would be even better. I take it this is a servo type sub - so he wouldn't need to check a port nearfield.

brucek

Yes it is a servo sub.

**brucek** · **06-28-09, 03:02 PM**

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it is a servo sub.

I wonder if the servo mechanism is acting up. Certainly, he shouldn't be experiencing the high distortion that is revealed in his ETC plots shown in earlier posts.

brucek

**Ricci** · **06-30-09, 11:07 AM**

Yep. My guess is that it's the servo or some form of limiting going on in the response below 25hz.

Elee532,

Try a moderate volume 0-200hz sweep set at 128K and then follow up with a sweep at each setting up to 1M, keeping everything else the same when you get a chance. My guess is that the longer sweeps will show a decrease in the lowest bass. After that start at a very low volume and do a few sweeps while increasing the volume 3db at a time and keep the sweep used exactly the same in between. (just turn your reciever up, be careful so you don't overdrive your sub) This should reveal whether it is some form of limiter in the sub or a problem with it.

**elee532** · **07-01-09, 08:27 PM**

The first graph shows four tests. Each was run using a 0 to 200Hz sweep. I used the "seperate traces" option to make for easier reading.

Green=128k
Red = 256k
Gold=512k
Aqua=1m

Graph two shows 0 to 200Hz sweeps set at 128k length with my pre-pro set increasing volume levels. The pattern doesn't seem to change much despite the change in volume.

What can you make of this?

Thanks!

**weverb** · **07-01-09, 09:21 PM**

Have you tried doing any nearfield plots of the driver also?

**Ricci** · **07-02-09, 03:13 PM**

Good suggestion Weverb.

Elee532,

Seeing as the 3 longer sweeps all correlate really well and have the lower bass represented well, I'd hazrd to say that you should probably stick with the 512K sweep length from now on. I think that your sub is fine.

**brucek** · **07-02-09, 03:36 PM**

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I think that your sub is fine.

Why is the 128K sweep so poor?

brucek

**JohnM** · **07-02-09, 04:23 PM**

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brucek wrote:

Why is the 128K sweep so poor?

Definitely the $64,000 question! Could the sub have some sort of auto standby that is not turning it on in time for the faster sweep? Certainly very odd.

**brucek** · **07-02-09, 04:29 PM**

My initial thought was that the subs servo-mechanism was acting up whenever a fast attack signal was applied.

Then I wondered if it was perhaps his computer that was a bit challenged and couldn't handle the start of the faster sweep.

It's the first time we've ever seen this though.

brucek

**elee532** · **07-02-09, 09:01 PM**

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weverb wrote:

Have you tried doing any nearfield plots of the driver also?

I wasn't positive about how to do a nearfield measurement, but I took a shot...

I couldn't get the sub outside, so I just left it where it was in the room.
I put the SPL meter mic about 3" from the center of the sub cone.
I ran Calibrate and set my pre-pro until I got a reading of about 75db. This led to my pre-pro volume being set at about 8.0 (max setting is 80.0). I took a reading using 128k and 256k sweep lengths. Just for the of it, I turned the volume control up to 15 and took the same two readings again. Here's what I got...

Green = volume 8.0, 128k
Red = volume 8.0, 256k
Gold = volume 15.0, 128k
Aqua = volume 15.0, 256k

FYI, the sub is set to the Always On setting.

Also, can someone confirm... I've been setting my SPL meter for C Weighting, Slow Response. Is this correct?

Thanks.

**brucek** · **07-03-09, 08:11 AM**

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I've been setting my SPL meter for C Weighting, Slow Response. Is this correct?

Yes....

**elee532** · **07-03-09, 09:42 AM**

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brucek wrote:

Yes....

Thanks. Were my nearfield readings done correctly? Do they offer any insight?

**brucek** · **07-03-09, 10:03 AM**

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Were my nearfield readings done correctly? Do they offer any insight?

It looks like you did everything correctly, although I am a bit confused by the statement:I ran Calibrate and set my pre-pro until I got a reading of about 75db.

Generally, you first run the Check Levels routine (during which time the pre-pro volume is adjusted to get a reading of 75dBSPL on the RadioShack meter).

Then the Calibrate routine is run to match the REW SPL meter to the 75dB reading of the Radio Shack meter.

Anyway, there's no way to establish what's wrong without substituting one of the possibilities. You have to substitute either the measuring computer or the subwoofer.

brucek

**elee532** · **07-03-09, 07:10 PM**

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brucek wrote:

It looks like you did everything correctly, although I am a bit confused by the statement:I ran Calibrate and set my pre-pro until I got a reading of about 75db.

Generally, you first run the Check Levels routine (during which time the pre-pro volume is adjusted to get a reading of 75dBSPL on the RadioShack meter).

Yeah, I meant to say Check Levels not Calibrate.

I do have a second computer that I can give this a try with. Will try to do so over the weekend.

Thanks!

**elee532** · **07-04-09, 02:22 PM**

I gave this a try on another computer... 0 to 200Hz sweep using 128, 256k, 512k, and 1M sweep lengths (graph 1, seperated traces is turned on). Graph 2 shows 0 to 20,000Hz sweeps at 128k and 1M.

Computer 1 is my HTPC... 2.5ghz dual core, Gigabyte GA-E7AUM-DS2H motherboard using the onboard Realtek Digitial Input and Output.

Computer 2 is a Lenovo ThinkPad X61T, Core2Duo 1.6Ghz, using USB Soundblaster X-Fi.

As you recall, my initial question surfaced when my results from a 0 to 200Hz sweep were different from the results from a 0 to 20,000Hz sweep between 0 and 20Hz (graph 1 below for reference).

Anyway, comparing these with the earlier readings, it looks the computer was the source of the difference and not the sub or pre-pro. Is my understanding correct? (I suppose if I was really motivated, I'd connect the X-Fi to Computer 1... just don't have the time or energy right now.). Any thoughts on why this might be the case?

Thanks!

**brucek** · **07-04-09, 02:32 PM**

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Any thoughts on why this might be the case?

It does look like the computer is the source of the problem. I made the suggestion to check that because before I got my fancy new laptop, I use to have a second computer that I would use for REW, and it was certainly challenged by REW and would always stumble at the start of a sweep and I would have to try quite a few times before it didn't hitch at the beginning.

I'm surprised that the computer giving you the problem is the faster one of the two you've tried, but who knows what other resources you have tying up the bus besides running REW.

Anyway, looks like you should use the thinkpad for your testing from now on....

brucek

**elee532** · **07-12-09, 04:22 PM**

I did some tweaking today using the ThinkPad for my readings. Not surprisingly, I now have more questions. :-)

1. The first graph below shows a major dip at around 150Hz from my right front speaker. It seems to even out when both speakers are on. Is this kind of thing to be expected?

Blue = Sub + Both mains
Gold = Sub + RF
Red = Sub + LF
Green = Sub only

2. I also played around with moving my seats and front speakers. The green line in graph 2 shows my seats moved forward about 12" and my front speakers moved about 24" closer to the front wall. Better?

3. All of my readings thus far were taken with my sub set at 28Hz/Low Damping. The purple line in graph 2 shows my sub setting changed to 20Hz/Low Damping. Looking better?

4. Is there something that I can do to address those dips at 71Hz and 172Hz? Should I just keep trying different speaker/seating/sub locactions? Is there any method to narrowing in on the seemingly infinte number of combinations of these three factors?

5. Graph 3 shows a reading from 200Hz to 2,000Hz. This is clearly way choppier. Is this normal?

6. How does the waterfall graph look? Are my bass traps paying off?

Thanks!!

**Wayne A. Pflughaupt** · **07-12-09, 05:08 PM**

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1. The first graph below shows a major dip at around 150Hz from my right front speaker. It seems to even out when both speakers are on. Is this kind of thing to be expected?

It happens, especially in asymmetrical rooms.

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2. I also played around with moving my seats and front speakers. The green line in graph 2 shows my seats moved forward about 12" and my front speakers moved about 24" closer to the front wall. Better?

Not really – levels below 30 Hz are significantly reduced.

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3. All of my readings thus far were taken with my sub set at 28Hz/Low Damping. The purple line in graph 2 shows my sub setting changed to 20Hz/Low Damping. Looking better?

If you mean “better than graph 1,” the answer is yes.

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4. Is there something that I can do to address those dips at 71Hz and 172Hz? Should I just keep trying different speaker/seating/sub locactions? Is there any method to narrowing in on the seemingly infinte number of combinations of these three factors?

The only problem is 71 Hz. The rest of it is perfectly normal.

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5. Graph 3 shows a reading from 200Hz to 2,000Hz. This is clearly way choppier. Is this normal?

Yes.

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6. How does the waterfall graph look? Are my bass traps paying off?

Looks good, but we’d have to see a “before” waterfall to say for sure.

Regards,
Wayne

**brucek** · **07-12-09, 06:09 PM**

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major dip at around 150Hz from my right front speaker. It seems to even out when both speakers are on. Is this kind of thing to be expected?

Of course. You can add the red and gold line together yourself and end up withe result of the blue....

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The green line in graph 2 shows my seats moved forward about 12" and my front speakers moved about 24" closer to the front wall. Better?

No, it's worse.

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Is there any method to narrowing in on the seemingly infinite number of combinations of these three factors?

Fourth factor. Adjust your subs phase control, since 71Hz is at your crossover area.

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Graph 3 shows a reading from 200Hz to 2,000Hz. This is clearly way choppier. Is this normal?

It's called comb filtering. Normal. Turn on the smoothing feature to reveal the underlying trend.

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How does the waterfall graph look? Are my bass traps paying off?

Compared to what?

brucek

**1972nosay** · **07-20-09, 05:45 PM**

I think ,all is too difficult to undestand!I need to study the software and I'll make my first test.

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