Room EQ Wizard, true RTA, ETF - any need for all?

[basementjack]

Hi,

Is there any reason to own more than one software program? REW looks like it does almost everything.

I'd like to hear comments from anyone who's ever used REW - did it replace another program for you? is there another program you use to supplement your readings?

- Jack

[Anthony]

Different tools for different applications. Mostly comes down to preference.

REW is awesome for setting filters on a parametric EQ. I found that using it for other analysis can be a bit non-intuitive, however, I'm just now really diving into it.

ETF and R+D mimic a lot of REW's functionality but with a lot more analytical add-ons. This of course comes at a price.

TrueRTA is interesting and a differnet approach. It's tough to set filters with, but you can instantly see changes to sub location, moving furniture, etc. Different visualization, but same application. I prefer REW's linear graph approach to a spectrum analyzer. Some like an RTA better.

For my money (hehe), I am going with REW for analyzing speaker response, sub location, and diagnosing room problems (like reverb time, modes, etc). Instead I'm investing money into the sound card, mic, and preamp.

The other software I tried and like is CARA. Finite element analysis of room design. Good for finding room problems before everything is put together. Speaker location, possible placement of room treatments, etc. Good compliment to REW.

Theoretical and practical together. Nice to see the what-if and actual measurements together. Sadly, I'm not a CARA or REW expert yet.

my 2 cents, anyway,
Anthony

[Wayne A. Pflughaupt]

I passed on this yesterday because I figured someone more knowledgeable would jump on it. Oh well – guess you’re stuck with me...

EDIT – I see Anthony dropped a post while I was composing mine, so some of this might be redundant.

I guess the best answer is to study the features and measurement capabilities of all three offer and decide which of them you need.

For instance, trueRTA and (I think) ETF both do real-time analysis. You can certainly use that to plot your system response, since at some point it “snapshots” a reading and produces a graph. But when it gets right down to it, you don’t need a real-time feature to do that. REW’s system of reading a sweep and then showing a graph afterwards is just as effective for capturing a response graph.

As someone familiar with the use of old-school RTA’s, I can tell you that REW is just too cool for words. The old stand-alone RTAs, you had to run that pink noise signal through your speakers and keep it playing the whole time you were equalizing, which could be time consuming since the LEd's would be jumping all up and down because of the random nature of pink noise. Lemme tell ya, that’ll send your wife running out of the house screaming and pulling her hair out! I doubt it’s as bad as that with trueRTA and ETF, but with REW the sweep runs for only 2-3 seconds. I’d be surprised if the real-time packages can get a reading that fast, but then I haven’t used them. Not to mention, REW is designed especially for adjusting equalizers. I don’t think the others do that.

That’s not to say that RTA’s don’t have their uses. I have my AudioControl R-130 connected to my system’s tape loop, to give a real-time full-spectrum reading of program material. Helps reassure to me any sound problems I hear is the program material, and not my speakers. For instance, if the male voices sound really boomy – sure enough, the RTA shows the signal is really hot in the 80-100 Hz range.

But as I said, unless you have a reason for tracking real-time response, you really don’t need it that in a room measurement program.

Now, if you are into building DIY speakers and subs, or want do want to do more thorough evaluation of equipment that passes through your place, you probably have a need for more comprehensive graphing, like Ilkka and Ed Mullen do with their reviews - group delay, power compression, THD@frequency, etc. If that’s the case, you’ll need to find the program that delivers the tests you want to perform. REW may do all or some of these, I don’t know – I’m still getting my feet wet with it. That’s why I wish someone better informed had replied. Maybe they will, if only to fill in the blanks where I might have missed it here.

Regards,
Wayne A. Pflughaupt

[basementjack]

Hey Anthony, thanks for the post- I just looked at something about CARA - that looks neat also!

Does CARA take any measurements or is it just calculation based?

[basementjack]

Wayne - thanks for the reply!

I am trying hard not to let the 'collector' in me go out and purchase every one of these things!

I'm going to play with REW again today - if I can get it working, it might just save me $150!

- Jack

PS is there any area on this forum that people can go to meet other people in the area? I see you're in Texas and Anthony is from Virgina -

Anyone near Chicago???

[basementjack]

Anthony -

I just bought a copy of that CARA program - should be cool!
If you own a licensed copy, send them an email and let them know you're spreading the word! (And ask for a discount on your next upgrade!)

[Anthony]

Cara is just a calculation program. No measurements (at least not the version I tried out). It is neat, though, especially if you have a weirdly shaped room.

[basementjack]

Still no measurements in version 2.2, but I've already got truerta, REW and there are a few more demo's on my HD right now too...

I've got a M-Audio MobilePre on the way (usb soundcard with XLR mic w/48v Phantom)

All that remains is a mic and there are a few music stores nearby that I can get those from.

Now If I can just fix that leak from Monday's storm, I can put all my HT stuff back in the basement and get going on all this!

Wayne A. Pflughaupt wrote:

For instance, trueRTA and (I think) ETF both do real-time analysis. You can certainly use that to plot your system response, since at some point it “snapshots” a reading and produces a graph. But when it gets right down to it, you don’t need a real-time feature to do that. REW’s system of reading a sweep and then showing a graph afterwards is just as effective for capturing a response graph.

As someone familiar with the use of old-school RTA’s, I can tell you that REW is just too cool for words. The old stand-alone RTAs, you had to run that pink noise signal through your speakers and keep it playing the whole time you were equalizing, which could be time consuming since the LEd's would be jumping all up and down because of the random nature of pink noise. Lemme tell ya, that’ll send your wife running out of the house screaming and pulling her hair out! I doubt it’s as bad as that with trueRTA and ETF, but with REW the sweep runs for only 2-3 seconds. I’d be surprised if the real-time packages can get a reading that fast, but then I haven’t used them. Not to mention, REW is designed especially for adjusting equalizers. I don’t think the others do that.


Regards,
Wayne A. Pflughaupt

I use True RTA, and you can do a full sweep in about 5 seconds. Low frequency detailed sweeps for bass take about 10 seconds. This function is called Quick Sweep. You can also use pink noise, but the results come out the same as the Quick Sweep from what I can tell. True RTA also has a dual trace storage ocilloscope function (for audio frequencies) that comes in handy at times.

True RTA also has 20 storage memories in each file, so you can save a lot of related readings. There is a notes section on the bottom of the screen, so you can detail what each sweep was about (AKA note crossover frequency, calibration levels, mike location in room, etc.).

Kind of neat and easy to use. I typically do a 1/24 octave sweep and save it. Then you can smooth the curve per any industry standards if you want to.

I guess everything depends on what you need for features, how much time you have to learn these programs and what you are trying to measure. REW looks interesting, but I am not sure how steep the learning curve is!

[Wayne A. Pflughaupt]

REW looks interesting, but I am not sure how steep the learning curve is!

I put together an stripped-down, “just the facts, ma’am” version of the Online Help Files that steps you through it without the “here’s why” details. I can e-mail it to you if you’re interested.

Regards,
Wayne

[texfrazer]

I haven't used any of the other programs, but REW really saved me a ton of frustrastion and money! I traded in my DIY sub for an SVS 20-39PCi. I set up the SVS and played some of the vaunted dvd's (Toy Story 2 opening, Finding Nemo whale and Darla, etc.) and was so depressed that I had just spent the cash on something that didn't produce any decent sounds at all. But, I thought that I would check and see if anyone else had this happen.

Thankfully, I found this forum and read up on REW and BFD's and promptly picked up a FBQ2496 on ebay and programmed it with REW. Now I can shake the walls with my house curve (one more thing I had never heard of!).

All of that to say that REW really is an amazing program. With the help files, I was able to download the program, study it, use it, and finalize the BFD filters within 36 hours. That is amazing! REW really is an incredible program! I can't imagine any other program being any more useful, especially with the midi interface to the BFD where REW will do all of the programming itself.



Tex

[basementjack]

Wayne, I'd love a copy of your just the facts help!

[Wayne A. Pflughaupt]

Check your e-mail, Jack.

Regards,
Wayne