RoomEQ help

**Moez** · **12-27-06, 09:58 AM**

I've spent 3 days trying to get my computer hooked up with Room EQ without any success at all. Tried connecting my creative soundcard Live! without any success at all. I'm seeing that a manual approach is being offered on both BVD and using the TAMREQ wizard. I guess i'm not the only person having a tough time getting the soundcard connected with the RoomEQ software. I'd rather use the RoomEQ or RS +D which I am licensed than doing it manually. Can you help me get this soundcard of mine acknowledged by RoomEQ?...Thanks

**brucek** · **12-27-06, 11:43 AM**

You'll have to expand on the problem a bit further.

As a start can you post a picture of REW like the one below.

I removed your restrictions on posting pics.....

I also want you to read this thread

souncardREW.jpg

brucek

**Moez** · **12-27-06, 03:30 PM**

Thanks Brucek...I actually figured out how to do it manually and exported my measurements to RoomEQ...so far it's worked out pretty well. Still do each channel at a time which is taking some time but I do have a few of questions.
1) I have two subs stacked in a corner behind my sofa which is 4 feet from my back wall. I literally can hear them behind and to my right when a movie calls for a lot of bass. For the room I have (18'X13') I'm limited to where I can place them but shouldn't i have them placed where I can't tell where the bass is coming from?
2) I own a B&W HTM center speaker and I'd like to know if it is considered bass limited with these specs: Freq. Response 49Hz - 23kHz ± 2dB on reference axis
Freq. Range -6dB at 35Hz and 50kHz, -3dB at 42Hz and 42kHz
3) I'm using B&W 802N's for right & left speakers and believe they should be listed as full range but I'm confused at what limit to set the crossover at 40,60,80? Should I do this in my AV32r_DP or on the subs? (Velodyne HGS15,& HGS-18) I'm knew at this and find more questions than answers. Thanks.

**DrWho** · **12-28-06, 12:06 AM**

I find that subs generally sound better (less localizeable) when positioned in the front of the room. If the subs can't move, then your best bet is to lower the crossover going to them. But if you listen at moderate to loud volumes, then the harmonic distortion on the subs is going to be all too noticeable (meaning that you'll never be able to achieve no localization).

Btw, even though your mains are full-range, you should still set every speaker to small. Any overlap is going to cause peaks in the frequency response. And usually it sounds more natural when the crossover point is the same for every speaker too.

I would start by setting everything to small with an 80Hz crossover and then lowering the crossover until you don't notice the subs anymore. Do not use the crossovers on your subs (basically set them as high as they will go). I don't mention this as the end all be all for every situation, but it's a start.

**Moez** · **12-29-06, 08:53 AM**

Hello Mike,
I took your advice and moved the subs to the front of the room,each one next to my center speaker and slightly behind each front speaker. It sounds soooo much better...now I can't tell where the bass is coming from. I shut off the crossovers on the subs and set the crossover to 80 in the AV-DP to start. I'll have to EQ the fronts and subs in their new locations but it will definetely worth it...thanks!!! I also wanted to mention something I noticed last time I EQ'd my speakers. First I set up the RS mic at my seating position and I set up my computer and monitor between me and the mic (don't own a laptop). Because of the problem I'm having with my soundcard I'm measuring manually. I noticed that my position next to the mic had an influence on the mic reading. If I moved back or forward a few inches the reading would change a few DB's . I can see why having the Roomeq do the work automatically is the way to go...otherwise I'm not sure if doing it manually is so accurate...what do you think?

**brucek** · **12-29-06, 12:07 PM**

Quote:

I can see why having the Roomeq do the work automatically is the way to go...otherwise I'm not sure if doing it manually is so accurate...what do you think?

Using REW sweeps is much more accurate than measuring manually....

brucek

**DrWho** · **12-29-06, 09:26 PM**

Moving the mic around will also yield small (sometimes huge) changes in the response

**Moez** · **12-30-06, 10:14 AM**

So is there an advantage to moving it around near my seating position?

**brucek** · **12-30-06, 10:40 AM**

Quote:

So is there an advantage to moving it around near my seating position?

If you find by quick experimentation that there is a large response change for different seating positions, and you want to be nice to those people sitting in those other positions, then you can take several readings and create an average filter setting in the equalizer to compromise for a decent response across the board. There is a measurement averaging feature in REW...

Then you can also have a critical listening set of filters just for you and the prime seat.....

brucek

**muse77** · **12-31-06, 07:57 AM**

Great advice on moving the mic around. I imagine that as a person adds room treatment they will want to move the mic around to the various positions to monitor changes there too.

Walking the mile to audio bliss takes a step at a time.

Bryan

**Moez** · **12-31-06, 09:40 AM**

Is it possible to check my soundcard with ROOMEQ software without connecting to a mic or AV? I'm sure the problem is in the mixer but as my PC is away from my theater room I'd like to test the soundcard with the software remotely if possible. Also I do have a digital output on this card which I'm not sure would change anything. I've not connected anything to that output before.

**muse77** · **12-31-06, 04:08 PM**

Part of the calibration of RoomEQ is to hook the output of the sound card back around to an input on it. You might try part of the calibration procedure to check your card.

I have a Sound Blaster Audigy and I use the Fiber Optic output from it into my AV unit and it works fine.

**brucek** · **12-31-06, 09:33 PM**

Quote:

I have a Sound Blaster Audigy and I use the Fiber Optic output from it into my AV unit and it works fine.

You do realize that when you use the digital output that you can't calibrate out a soundcards response anomolies?

brucek

**muse77** · **01-01-07, 06:49 AM**

I didn't know that. But when I started calibration I realized I couldn't input to both channels. So I have been using the pc speaker output for doing calibration and testing room.

Would it be best to avoid the digital output while testing the room?

I think I misunderstood what Moe was saying. I thought he was wanting to use digital out for normal use.

**brucek** · **01-01-07, 07:37 AM**

Quote:

Would it be best to avoid the digital output while testing the room?

For testing with REW, we want to eliminate the poor frequency response of a soundcard. Some cards are quite poor at low frequencies.

To accomplish this, a calibration file is created using the analog line-out connected directly to the analog line-in. When both these ports are used in the testing, then the file created corrects the response graph to simulate a perfect soundcard. This isn't the case when you use the digital output.

Quote:

I think I misunderstood what Moe was saying. I thought he was wanting to use digital out for normal use.

I think he just wanted to see if his soundcard was compatable and usable with REW. Your answer was quite correct. To find out he should do a soundcard calibration. If that works, he's gold.... just don't use the digital output.

brucek

**muse77** · **01-01-07, 04:41 PM**

Thanks for the info. I make enough mistakes without creating more headaches.

To walk a mile takes one step at a time.
Bryan

**DrWho** · **01-01-07, 10:06 PM**

I use the digital output

To calibrate, I can run the analog preouts from the receiver back to the soundcard...only problem is it assumes a flat response inside the receiver.

**brucek** · **01-02-07, 06:36 AM**

Quote:

To calibrate, I can run the analog preouts from the receiver back to the soundcard

Since the analog output circuits of the receiver won't be used when using REW to take a measurement, this probably wouldn't be a good idea. Best to use the analog line-in and line-out...

brucek

**Moez** · **01-02-07, 08:18 AM**

I finally got the soundcard calibrated with the software. Ineeded to select stereo mix and not line in to make that connection. Now another problem but I'm feeling like I'm that close to taking measurements successfully. I have set the measurement level, input volume control, and calibrated the soundcard. When I started to take measurements I set the target level and did an automatic measurement . I heard the sweep through my left speaker which I am trying to measure but all I'm getting is a flat response line....very similar to the soundcard measurement on the graph....I also got the same response when I measured the sub...any idea why this is happening?

**JohnM** · **01-02-07, 09:02 AM**

Hi Moe,

Stereo Mix is an internal loopback within the soundcard, it does not connect externally. You have to use Line In and configure the soundcard to get Line In working, then all should be OK for measurements. Please post a screenshot of the Creative mixer (will be in the Program files -> Creative program group somewhere) so we can try and figure out which setting needs to be changed.

**Moez** · **01-02-07, 01:19 PM**

OK...this iis a spashot of my volume control record and playback

**Moez** · **01-02-07, 02:29 PM**

I got it to work with changing the input from right to left.....finally! Now that I can take measurements I'll have to focus on understanding how to read the measurements...especially when measuring my sub. the target curve for my sub and left speaker so far seem way off...I'll keep on keeping on...

**Moez** · **01-03-07, 09:15 AM**

Spent last evening Eq'ing all my speakers but wanted to know why the measurment of the channels came 10db average under the target line? Also when integrating my bass limited speakers which I have set them all to bass limited (not really sure why) am I measuring each of them with the subs on? Once I have completed all speakers do I eliminate the filters for the sub? Not sure why I would have filters for the sub only when I'm using the subs with all my speakers at the same time.

**JohnM** · **01-03-07, 09:44 AM**

You are in a different position to most on here Moe as you have full range EQ capability for all channels in your processor. Measure the sub first on its own, then set up filters to correct its response and leave those filters in place for your subsequent measurements. For the main speakers measure a speaker on its own, then measure it together with the sub and see which of the peaks in the speaker-alone measurement are still present when measuring speaker+sub. Only apply filters to the peaks you can see in both measurements.

For the target level, did you use the Set Target Level process?

**Moez** · **01-03-07, 10:26 AM**

Before I do a sweep of the speaker I'm measuring I always set the target level first. I also wanted to know where I should set the subwoofer volume to on each sub...even though I calibrate it to 75db I'm sure it makes a difference. Also where should I set the susonic filter? (15Hz-35Hz) Also does high pass crossover have an impact ...I have the crossover set at 120(max) and set it in the AV-DP. John do i setup my B&W 802's as bass limited or full range? I've heard that setting all the speakers as bass limited is the way to go...how do I know which is correct and what to set the crossover at for the mains?

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