New speakers

**cellexjohn** · **01-27-07, 11:59 AM**

Greetings,

Can I graph these right away, or should I "Break them in" before running REW?

Thanks
John

**Sonnie** · **01-27-07, 02:37 PM**

Does the frequency response change on speakers after they are broke in?

Why not take measurements now. Keep the mic and room setup as is for a few days (this would be super crucial)... play the speakers 24/7 for 48-72 hours and then remeasure. It might be an interesting experiment.

**cellexjohn** · **01-27-07, 03:02 PM**

I guess that would be the only way to really know.

I have had them playing for about 4 hours full rang at a moderate volume. I set my levels with an SPL meter and just finished hooking up my laptop. I hope I don't have to run out and purchase the external sound card

Thanks for the reply
John

**Wayne A. Pflughaupt** · **01-27-07, 03:33 PM**

A test mic is not nearly a sensitive as your ears are. Breaking in the speakers, if it does anything audibly beneficial at all, isn’t going to be “seen” by the mic – i.e., increased detail, improved dynamics, etc.

By the way, I recall reading in one of the late great hi-fi publications that a good way to break in speakers is to play pink noise at a low level overnight or while you’re gone to work. Pink noise is more steady-state than program signals, as it produces all frequencies at a uniform level.

Regards,
Wayne

**cellexjohn** · **01-28-07, 06:48 PM**

I will have to say that after listening for a couple days I cant tell any difference. I didn't play pink noise but just played music for a while yesterday and part of the day today. I did set them all to large in 5ch stereo to get all the drivers moving.

I had a heck of a time getting the SPL meter calibrated and working. I ended up buying the SB 24 bit external card and it went smooth.

Today I took some measurements and believe that I have the basics figured out. This software is pretty cool! Lots of fun making all the adjustments to the system and sub and getting quick results. I stood the loveseat up in a corner to see if I could knock down one of my peaks.

Enjoy
John

**cellexjohn** · **01-29-07, 12:42 PM**

Allright, I am about ready to post a few charts. I have moved the sub to quite a few different locations including changing the direction of the ports, and have the phase adjustment dial where i get the best mix with my mains. THe only thing I haven't tried yet is changing the port tuning to see if I can pull it down lower and in return remove some of my peak at 48Hz.

I just placed an order for the BFD 1124P and it should arrive tomorrow.

If I could get unblocked so I cam post HTML it would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks
John

**brucek** · **01-29-07, 01:35 PM**

done..............

**cellexjohn** · **01-29-07, 04:35 PM**

Thanks brucek.

I will attempt to post when I get home.

John

**cellexjohn** · **01-29-07, 06:57 PM**

Well here we go.
All graphs are 80Hz crossover in the preamp. Phase is left the same at 1 tic below 180. No EQ.

1st graph is sub only.
2nd is mains only
3rd is subs and mains (80Hz crossover in preamp)

subonly 80hz.jpg

mainsonly 80hz.jpg

sub+mains 80hz.jpg

All coments welcome.

John

**brucek** · **01-29-07, 07:04 PM**

Quite a good response without equalization. You would have no problem cleaning that up with a BFD.

I would turn up the sub amp about 5dB-8dB and then filter the peak at 40Hz-60Hz (when you get a BFD) and it would be great.....

brucek

**cellexjohn** · **01-29-07, 07:40 PM**

Thanks for the reply. I'm looking forward to the BFD.

That peak around 50Hz is probably where I have been setting the sub with the SPL meter. It wil be nice to get rid of that. I have been running the sub about 1/3 gain with a -3 on the sub out in the preamp so definatley have room to increase the output.

John

**brucek** · **01-30-07, 07:31 AM**

Quote:

That peak around 50Hz is probably where I have been setting the sub with the SPL meter.

Exactly. You end up only hearing the single note. When you EQ that peak away and then turn up the sub amp to compensate, it's amazing how you suddenly hear all the lower frequencies. It's like getting a better sub. And all from a cheap EQ device.....

brucek

**cellexjohn** · **01-31-07, 07:55 PM**

Greetings,

I have the BFD inline and re REWed to take into account the delay. I reran tests with different phase and these are the 2 better ones. I wasnt sure about the big drop being it was so narrow.

Input on the better starting point would be appreciated.

bfd phase90+1and90+2.jpg

John

**cellexjohn** · **01-31-07, 11:20 PM**

Well I am quite impressed with the BFD. I decided to set one filter just to see what it would sound like. I did a -9 at 48Hz and then upped the gain on the sub amp. What a difference for just "plugging one in"

Before and after with one filter.

subonly 80hz.jpg

bfd-9at48hzgainup.jpg

Im sure with room treatment I am in for a whole new HT experence.

This forum has been VERY helpful.

Thanks again for the help in getting me to this point.

John

**cellexjohn** · **02-04-07, 08:53 AM**

Whoops, I posted in the wrong thread.

It interested I moved to the acoustics thread.

John

**cyberbri** · **02-04-07, 02:19 PM**

Quote:

cellexjohn wrote:

Greetings,

I have the BFD inline and re REWed to take into account the delay. I reran tests with different phase and these are the 2 better ones. I wasnt sure about the big drop being it was so narrow.

Input on the better starting point would be appreciated.

Attachment 1986

John

The one in red looks smoother.

**DrWho** · **02-05-07, 07:03 PM**

That's pretty impressive for an in-room response...how large is your room?

That dip just above 80Hz is likely a boundary cancellation between your mic and the floor. I'd wager you had the meter about 3.5 feet off the ground?

It's too narrow to be audible so there's nothing to worry about. You can see the dip shift around a bit in each measurement which indicates that the mic moved slightly inbetween measurements. You've also got a dip around 65Hz which would correlate to 4.5 foot distance to the cieling.

Btw, changing the tuning of the port shouldn't affect the 45Hz peak - but I don't think you're going down that road anymore...

**cellexjohn** · **02-05-07, 07:28 PM**

Hi MIke

The Mic is on a tripod sitting on the couch in seating position. It is in fact 38" above the floor. The ceiling is 6 feet up from the mic position. I do have a narrow wall "kind of" behind the couch that is 4 feet from the mic. You are on it! he he

I have a room diagram in the acoustics forum if interested. Living/HT Layout. It's correct on dimentions but kind of crude on the actual layout.

I thought I read somwhere that the narrow dip wasn't too much of a concern. Glad to hear you agree.

Thanks
John

**Josuah** · **02-07-07, 03:36 AM**

In regards to break-in, you can read an article on Audioholics about the electro-mechanical potential for break-in, along with the math. Assuming the math is correct (I didn't bother to check), the basic conclusion is break-in should occur almost immediately and also be statistically inaudible.

**cellexjohn** · **02-09-07, 10:39 AM**

Hi Josuah,

I remember reading in one of the magazines that break in was more the listener getting used to the equipment rather then the new pieces breaking in.

John

**cellexjohn** · **02-09-07, 11:37 AM**

Mike,

So that 45H dip is probably tied to the small wall behind the couch? I was going to treat that as a first reflection point and use 1" 703. Should I look at using something else there instead?

John

**cyberbri** · **02-09-07, 11:44 AM**

1" on a wall won't treat 45Hz.

**Josuah** · **02-09-07, 01:05 PM**

Quote:

cellexjohn wrote:

I remember reading in one of the magazines that break in was more the listener getting used to the equipment rather then the new pieces breaking in.

That's one possible reason. But some manufacturers claim to perform break-in before delivery, or suggest break-in methods which avoid or prevent listening during that period. And then some manufacturers suggest break-in periods that exceed their return policy.

**cellexjohn** · **02-09-07, 06:13 PM**

Hi cyberbri,

I might just have to let that wall do as it must. I dont have room to spare for thicker treatment there.

John

**cellexjohn** · **02-09-07, 06:14 PM**

Josuah,

Funny, exceeding return policy. I could see that.

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