Help buying Calibr. Equipment for Vista Computer

[Fore]

Hi, I've got a sony laptop running Vista. I want to ask for this stuff for Xmas and need some help as there seems to be a fair amt. of people having problems with REW and vista. Here's my list so far:

http://www.zzounds.com/item--BEHECM8000 $50

http://www.zzounds.com/item--BEHDEQ2496 $300

http://www.zzounds.com/item--CBIMLC $10 Mic Cable

http://www.jr.com/JRProductPage.proc...feed.BEH+PS400 $20 Berhringer phantom power

I read here:

"Attention Vista Users

There are new Soundblaster Live 24-bit USB external sound card drivers dated August 23, 2007 for computers using the Vista operating system available here

http://us.creative.com/support/downl...pe=0&x=28&y=14

Special attention should be paid to the instructions about uninstalling your previous driver."

So, apparantly Creative Labs Sound Blaster Live! 24-bit External USB Sound Card, which has now upgraded the drivers to work with Vista. Is this true? Is this the best choice?

Any lastly, any other things I need I didn't include??

Thanks for answering my 'beginner' questions

Fore

[warnerwh]

If you're getting the DEQ 2496 I don't think you need a phantom microphone preamp because it already has one built in.

[brucek]

I think the DEQ2496 mic preamp is for use with the device itself internally. I don't believe you can break out and send the preamp line output to another device.

The behringer phantom power supply you referenced is a power supply only and not a preamp (which is required). You would need a full microphone preamp with phantom power for the ECM8000, such as the one most people use from behringer = XENYX 802.

brucek

[Fore]

brucek wrote:

I think the DEQ2496 mic preamp is for use with the device itself internally. I don't believe you can break out and send the preamp line output to another device.

The behringer phantom power supply you referenced is a power supply only and not a preamp (which is required). You would need a full microphone preamp with phantom power for the ECM8000, such as the one most people use from behringer = XENYX 802.

brucek

Thanks Brucek, I didn't know that..this whole process is EXTREMELY confusing for one not familiar with all the terminology and process. But everything else looks good? What about the wires needed to seperate the r and l. channels while EQ'ing? That part is even more confusing

So Thanks Again for all the help!!!

[brucek]

But everything else looks good? What about the wires needed to seperate the r and l. channels while EQ'ing? That part is even more confusing

Well, I guess I don't really know what you're trying to accomplish. Why the DEQ2496? Do you want to simply EQ your subwoofer? If so, the DEQ is not really the route to take...

The splitting of the left and right channels of the soundcard is to break out one of the two channels (right and left) of the line-in and line-out. The jacks on a soundcards line-in and line-out are stereo. You want to get at one of those stereo channels since REW really only uses a single mono channel. The selection of the right or left for testing with REW is selectable in REW.

So, most people use the type of adapter shown below which has a stereo plug on one end and breaks to two mono plugs.



You'll only use one of the two mono channels, fed from a microphone. You require line level signals, so if you use an ECM8000 mic, it needs a preamp to boost the signal to line level. Note that the output of the XENYX 802 preamp is balanced, so you need to use a 1/4" TS plug on its output to convert it to unbalanced to feed it to the soundcard (which is unbalanced)..

The line-out of the soundcard simply feeds your receivers AUX or CD input.

brucek

[Fore]

brucek wrote:

Well, I guess I don't really know what you're trying to accomplish. Why the DEQ2496? Do you want to simply EQ your subwoofer? If so, the DEQ is not really the route to take...

Yes Brucek, I'm using it for sub EQ only...but I read it's the one to get as it has, I forget the exact term now, but can give boost to <20hz for a flatter fr vs. the BFD doesn't have this option. I think it is related to a demi-Linkwitz filter ?spelling

The splitting of the left and right channels of the soundcard is to break out one of the two channels (right and left) of the line-in and line-out. The jacks on a soundcards line-in and line-out are stereo. You want to get at one of those stereo channels since REW really only uses a single mono channel. The selection of the right or left for testing with REW is selectable in REW.

Oh, I see!

So, most people use the type of adapter shown below which has a stereo plug on one end and breaks to two mono plugs.

So each one of the stereo plugs on the one end are 1 for the right ch. and the other for the left ch?

You'll only use one of the two mono channels, fed from a microphone. You require line level signals, so if you use an ECM8000 mic, it needs a preamp to boost the signal to line level. Note that the output of the XENYX 802 preamp is balanced, so you need to use a 1/4" TS plug on its output to convert it to unbalanced to feed it to the soundcard (which is unbalanced)..

Humm, I thought the ECM8000 is also balanced, so it plugs directly into the 802 preamp, which is outputting a balanced signal. So I need a wire with two balanced connects at one end, and a 1/4" Ts plug at the other? And that plugs into the 1/4" input on the soundcard blaster live?

The line-out of the soundcard simply feeds your receivers AUX or CD input.

So I need another 1/4" TS to dual RCA's to feed into the reciever?

Thanks a ton for all the help Brucek!!!!


Chris

[brucek]

I'm using it for sub EQ only...but I read it's the one to get as it has, I forget the exact term now, but can give boost to <20hz for a flatter fr vs. the BFD doesn't have this option.

Well, most people would choose the FBQ2496. The DEQ has a graphic eq you're paying for and not likely using. Not that the DEQ isn't a good device....

So each one of the stereo plugs on the one end are 1 for the right ch. and the other for the left ch?

No, the single plug on the right side of the picture above is the stereo 1/8" plug that has the right and left channel connection. It plugs into the soundcard jack.
The left hand side of the picture with the two plugs are the right and left channel split into 1/8" mono plugs....

Humm, I thought the ECM8000 is also balanced, so it plugs directly into the 802 preamp, which is outputting a balanced signal. So I need a wire with two balanced connects at one end, and a 1/4" Ts plug at the other? And that plugs into the 1/4" input on the soundcard blaster live?

Yeah, the ECM is balanced and plugs into the balanced input of the preamp directly as shown below or with a standard XLR cable you referenced before.



The output channel of the preamp is balanced, but you want it to be unbalanced to match the soundcard. So you use a 1/4" TS phono as shown in the picture. The cable can have a mono 1/8" or RCA plug onthe other end to connect to the mono left or right channel of the soundcard line-in....

So I need another 1/4" TS to dual RCA's to feed into the reciever?

No, the soundcard uses stereo 1/8" jacks as we discussed above. The adapter splitter we discussed above splits into left and right channel. Connect that to the receiver from the line-out of the soundcard. The receiver would use RCA's.

brucek

[Fore]

brucek wrote:

Well, most people would choose the FBQ2496. The DEQ has a graphic eq you're paying for and not likely using. Not that the DEQ isn't a good device....

Brucek, I did a bit of research here, http://www.hometheatershack.com/foru...s-deq2496.html and http://www.hometheatershack.com/foru...e-so-much.html and http://home.comcast.net/~thomasw-2/S...ndEQpage6.html

So, when eqing a sub, I only need parametric filters and not a graphic eq? And it was those 'shelf filters' that I was talking about earlier when I said 'demi linkwitz filter'. I thought only the DCX model has this feature??? And this is the only way to help get a flat fr <10hz??....as discussed here:
http://home.comcast.net/~thomasw-2/S...EQ2496-LT.html

And Brucek, I also wanted 2 seperate peq parameters, 1. for HT, and 2. for music only. I 'think', only the DCX model does this...true?

brucek wrote:

No, the single plug on the right side of the picture above is the stereo 1/8" plug that has the right and left channel connection. It plugs into the soundcard jack.
The left hand side of the picture with the two plugs are the right and left channel split into 1/8" mono plugs....

Got it!!

brucek wrote:

Yeah, the ECM is balanced and plugs into the balanced input of the preamp directly as shown below or with a standard XLR cable you referenced before.



The output channel of the preamp is balanced, but you want it to be unbalanced to match the soundcard. So you use a 1/4" TS phono as shown in the picture. The cable can have a mono 1/8" or RCA plug onthe other end to connect to the mono left or right channel of the soundcard line-in....


No, the soundcard uses stereo 1/8" jacks as we discussed above. The adapter splitter we discussed above splits into left and right channel. Connect that to the receiver from the line-out of the soundcard. The receiver would use RCA's.

brucek

Again, got it!! Thanks so much Brucek for helping me out.

[glaufman]

Hey Bruce- I noticed that first you said most people use the Xenyx 802, but from the picture I see you use the UB802... I'm looking to make a purchase, but can't spend any more money than I need to... and on first inspection they look very similar even though they differ in price...

What are the advantages/disadvantages of each?

Any reason I shouldn't drop to either the Xenyux 502 or the UB502? (I'm not sure what I'll ever use this for other than a preamp for the ECM8000...)

[brucek]

I noticed that first you said most people use the Xenyx 802, but from the picture I see you use the UB802

Yeah, the Xenyx replaced the UB802. They're basically identical. I think some stores still have the UB model around. Either way, get which ever one is cheapest...... hehehe, Behringer is notorious for discontinuing a product and then continuing to sell it. Example, BFD 1124P..............

brucek

[brucek]

I also wanted 2 seperate peq parameters, 1. for HT, and 2. for music only. I 'think', only the DCX model does this...true?

No, the BFD DSP 1124P has 5 programs. It's one of the reasons some people like it over the higher spec'd FBQ2496 with has only one.

And it was those 'shelf filters' that I was talking about earlier

Yep, if you're set on a shelf filter, then that's the way to go. Fairly easy to get any response you want with a BFD, but if you want the extra programs that the FBQ doesn't offer, better go with the DEQ..

[Fore]

Excellent Brucek. Thanks for the help again. Sounds like your not to big on the necessity of shelf filters...any particular reason?

[glaufman]

I was hoping it was something like that.... so they havqe equivalent performance in terms of frequency response and noise etc?

I'm going this route because I intend to do full range scans... I know I can calibrate out hte respopnse of the pre-amp but I figure if the initial response is flatter for just $20 more... But of course, I'd like to save $20 if there's no difference...

[brucek]

so they have equivalent performance in terms of frequency response and noise etc?

They are identical................

brucek

[glaufman]

Thanks a bunch!

[Fore]

Fore wrote:

Excellent Brucek. Thanks for the help again. Sounds like your not to big on the necessity of shelf filters...any particular reason?

Brucek, any comment on the real usefullness of these shelf filters?

Oh, and just to complete the wiring aspect of all this, I understand the connections of the soundcard to preamp now. But is this right too?: Take a 1/8" line out soundcard to RCA input into r or l. channel of Aux. In on my reciever. Then RCA Sub Out in reciev., to XLR IN on BFD. And lastly, XLR OUT on BFD back to the Coax In on the back of the reciever. And that's it right???? (I feal like I'm graduating HS again hehehe)

I can't Thanks You enough for all the help Brucek!! And I guess I'll too just get the $20 less for the UB802 model.

Edit: I Promise this is my last question for you hehe

Chris

[brucek]

Take a 1/8" line out soundcard to RCA input into r or l. channel of Aux. In on my reciever.

Yeah, some people take the mono signal from the soundcards line-out (that was split into left and right with the Y-adapter) and feed it to an RCA Y-splitter and feed the mono signal to left and right input of the AUX or CD so they can have both mains playing (when it comes time to turn them on)..

Oh, and here's a little known fact. On the line-out of the soundcard after we split the signal into right and left channel, the same signal is actually on both the right and left channel irregardless of which channel we choose to select in REW. The left or right select actually only selects which line-in channel REW looks at. So, you could simply send the right and left channel to AUX right or left at the receiver.

Then RCA Sub Out in reciev., to XLR IN on BFD

Yes.

And lastly, XLR OUT on BFD back to the Coax In on the back of the reciever.

Huh? No, the BFD XLR out goes to your subwoofer...... The BFD applies filters to the subwoofer signal before it goes to the sub.

See the diagram below:

RoomEQ_Wizard_WIRING_DIAGRAM.jpg

brucek

[Fore]

brucek wrote:

Yeah, some people take the mono signal from the soundcards line-out (that was split into left and right with the Y-adapter) and feed it to an RCA Y-splitter and feed the mono signal to left and right input of the AUX or CD so they can have both mains playing (when it comes time to turn them on)..

Oh, and here's a little known fact. On the line-out of the soundcard after we split the signal into right and left channel, the same signal is actually on both the right and left channel irregardless of which channel we choose to select in REW. The left or right select actually only selects which line-in channel REW looks at. So, you could simply send the right and left channel to AUX right or left at the receiver.

That makes sense. So really, I'm just using the AUX dual mono inputs on the reciever so i can have the mains work so I can run the mains, rears, center and sub all together, and THEN start using REW...correct?

brucek wrote:

Huh? No, the BFD XLR out goes to your subwoofer...... The BFD applies filters to the subwoofer signal before it goes to the sub.

See the diagram below:

Attachment 5105

brucek

Excellent diagrahm that helps alot....My assumption was stupidly based on missreading the pictures in
The Getting STarted with REW thread. I definetely have it now..."Finally"!! I'm sure you're saying to yourself at this point! hehehe

Thanks again Brucek, my list is pretty complete now.

Chris

[brucek]

I'm just using the AUX dual mono inputs on the reciever so i can have the mains work so I can run the mains, rears, center and sub all together, and THEN start using REW...correct?

No, you never use anything but the subwoofer and mains with REW. Turn of all effects and soundfields and set your receiver in stereo mode. Always leave it that way when using REW.

The purpose of REW is as a tool to recommend filters to enter into the equalizer to result in a proper subwoofer response in your room.

You start using REW with the mains turned off and the subwoofer only playing. Then you equalize the sub with REW recommended filters and remeasure and tweak until you're satisfied with the result.

Then you turn on the mains speakers to see the overall response of the sub + mains. Attention at that point is paid to the level between the two and the crossover region (i.e. 80HZ) for any newly formed dips or peaks because of interaction. Correct and remeasure....

brucek

[Fore]

Oh, I see! That makes better sense. And....I don't want to look above and count the times I've already said that Brucek so don't ask )
But I do now understand much better the "Whole Picture". And I can't wait to get the gear, get it all hooked up and hope I can get some decent results with this Vista platform.

In the meantime, I'm going to weed thru some of the online manuals lol

Thanks Again Brucek, especially for your patience and willingness to share!

Chris

[privateradio]

In the classified I posted all this stuff in one box if interested. Mic, preamp, boom, soundcard, cables. $140 OBO.