Soundblaster Live! 24-bit USB External Setup

**bobgenie** · **06-04-06, 03:18 PM**

Hi,

I have a Creative 24 bit external soundcard but have been unable to calibrate it despite messing with all the various settings there was always some feedback. The only way I can get a normal looking curve was to use the internal card as output and the external card as input. This gave me a calibration curve similar to that for an internal card.
I then tried a sweep for the sub but it seems with limited success

I've spent all day on this and achieving very little so far. Can anyone help?

Cheers.

**JohnM** · **06-04-06, 04:50 PM**

I guess you mean the SoundBlaster Live! 24-bit External USB card.

Ensure in the Creative Speaker Settings that the "Digital Output Only" box is not checked.
Ensure CMSS is off (green CMSS LED off - push the button on the front of the unit to turn it off if it is on).
Select Line In/Mic In as the Rec source in the Creative Surround mixer.
In the Creative surround Mixer Source panel ensure Wave is not muted, Line-In/Mic-In is muted.
Ensure monitoring is off (click the + by the Line In/mic In symbol in the Source panel and ensure Monitor is not checked in the Advanced Controls dialogue this pops up (or run the Creative Device Control program and ensure Enable Monitoring not checked).
In the Creative Device Control program set the Output Audio Quality to 48kHz, 16 bits and ensure you select 48kHz as the sample rate in REW.
In the Creative EAX Console make sure Audio Effects is not enabled, Equalizer is not enabled etc.
If a dialogue pops up that says to hear audio you must enable monitoring, click Cancel on the dialog.
By default the Wizard sets the output level to 0.5 while setting measurement level, for the SB Live! it is typically better to set output level to 1.000, otherwise can struggle to get sufficient input level - if you find this, use the Master Control in the Creative Surround Mixer to increase the volume to 100% at the point in Setting Measurement Level where the Wizard pops up a message saying that it is about to generate a pink noise signal at -20dB

Hope that helps

**bobgenie** · **06-04-06, 07:29 PM**

Many thanks John, very helpful. The 16 bits in device control made the difference as all others were as they should have been. Regarding the increase in volume to 100% in soundcard control, does this then stay at 100% or revert back to 50% after the measurement?

Anyhow, I got it working and the curve was exactly as expected.

I then did an automatic sweep of the sub and that was not

I set the target level at 77.6 but achieved a peak of something like 36 db. The graph was just a mess with both peak and dips off the graph and only reaching a third along the way. Is my room really that bad or am I (again) doing something wrong?

**Sonnie** · **06-04-06, 10:54 PM**

Did you have your axis settings set properly? Check out post #2 and #3 in this thread.

**JohnM** · **06-05-06, 12:57 AM**

Regarding the output volume, when you exit REW it will be restored to the level it was at when REW started up. It will stay at 100% while REW is running (unless you alter it elsewhere).

The default for the sweep is to cover the range from 20Hz to 200Hz, you can change this in the boxes below the Automatic Measurement button.

When setting the target level make sure the speaker type on the tab you are using corresponds to the speaker you are measuring, i.e. it should be set to Subwoofer when measuring the sub.

Did you hear the sweep when doing the test? It is a tone that starts out very low and gradually rises in frequency over the few seconds of the measurement, if you didn't hear it then start looking at the connections to your sub. If you hear the tone OK and you could see your SPL meter needle reacting then check the connections from the SPL meter and that the channel selected in the SPL Meter box (below the red Record button) corresponds to the input you are using. If the meter needle did not react check that it is set to the correct range (usually 80dB).

**bobgenie** · **06-05-06, 02:45 PM**

Changing the axis settings made a difference, now I can see the graph - it's still a bit crap but we're getting there

I made some adjustments to the BFD and ran the sweep again which made some changes but I will connect the midi cable later this week and hope to get things moving.

I downloaded the cal files for the newer digital RS meter but couldn't see how to input them into the REW. My head still sore from all the other stuff! Do I just enter the figures in to the REW somewhere?

Thanks for all the help, and no doubt I'll be asking again soon

**brucek** · **06-05-06, 02:59 PM**

Quote:

Do I just enter the figures in to the REW somewhere?

Simply copy the calibration data into notepad and save the file as rs.cal in any directory you wish.

Then start the REW program and under the pull-down METER, select LOAD METER/MICROPHONE CALIBRATION FILE.

You then enter the location of your XXX.cal file and that's it. The next time you start REW it will tell you that the cal file is loaded.

brucek

**Sonnie** · **06-05-06, 03:32 PM**

You should be able to save the *.cal file just like it is from the Downloads page to a folder on your hard drive. Probably name a folder "REW" under your "My Documents" folder and save all your REW files there... such a *.mdat files, *.req files and your *.cal file. This keeps all your REW related files under one folder.

To load it... in that same thread (post #6) I referenced earlier we have diagram clip of loading the *.cal file... as brucek explains... it's a one step loading process.

**bobgenie** · **06-05-06, 04:21 PM**

Brilliant - thanks!

**Chrisbee** · **06-06-06, 06:08 AM**

Just like to say thanks John for showing the Soundblaster Live! screenshot.

Until I saw your post I'd just run the device as Plug and Play and was getting nothing except music replay.

Now I've run the software CD and have lots more toys to play with.

The packaging said Plug and Play and (like a fool) I trusted the packaging.

The problem is if you connect a device and then run the CD you sometimes get multiple drivers and a non-functioning toy.
It happened with both my Philips Toucam Pro webcams 1 & 2.

One day all IT will be as easy to use as toasters. Now if I could only fathom out how to work my toaster.

Thanks (yet) again.
Chris

**TonyB** · **07-06-06, 12:42 PM**

Just to add some more information to this thread.
I was suffering terrible problems when setting up the soundblaster 24bit external because I was using single phono to mono 3.5mm plugs to connect to the line in/out.
I changed those to stereo 3.5mm plug to dual left/right phono sockets and connected to the Right sound channel on both line in and out (should have followed the diagram exactly, instead of being a cheapskate)

Things seem to be working as expected now.

Hope this helps someone.

Tony

**Chrisbee** · **07-22-06, 04:20 PM**

A quick tip for the SB Live! External Soundcard user:

Just above the slider on the far right of the SB Surround Mixer box there is REC. with a small symbol just above the red slider.

Check that the vertical writing alongside the slider shows "Line-in/Mic-in" instead of "What you hear".

"What you hear" seems to be the default setting and the mixer returns to this internal monitoring setting automatically!

If you have "What you hear" enabled then REW behaves EXACTLY as if it is working perfectly. Both bar-graphs will bounce up and down obediently and the SPL boxes will pretend to read the RS meter/microphone input to digital perfection. REW will then chew on the test sweep and show every sign of working correctly.

But all you get in the response graph window after every single test sweep is a mirror-image of your meter correction curve! Not an interesting wiggly line representing your real response curve.

This had me scratching my head for a while as it's easy to miss the tiny sideways message beside the slider.

**ransac** · **09-24-06, 02:12 AM**

I have set up my Live 24 as instructed in this thread, but when I select the input in REW, Line In is not shown. I only have Microphone and What U Hear. Why is Line In not an option?

**brucek** · **09-24-06, 05:01 AM**

Did you check the thread above where it says,

'Just above the slider on the far right of the SB Surround Mixer box there is REC. with a small symbol just above the red slider.

Check that the vertical writing alongside the slider shows "Line-in/Mic-in" instead of "What you hear".

Did that not make any difference?

brucek

**JohnM** · **09-24-06, 05:05 AM**

Quote:

ransac wrote:

I have set up my Live 24 as instructed in this thread, but when I select the input in REW, Line In is not shown. I only have Microphone and What U Hear. Why is Line In not an option?

Because the SB Live 24 uses the same input channel for both mic and line in which it labels MICROPHONE, the unit detects which is connected. Select the input called MICROPHONE in REW.

**ransac** · **09-24-06, 01:52 PM**

Quote:

brucek wrote:

Did you check the thread above where it says,

'Just above the slider on the far right of the SB Surround Mixer box there is REC. with a small symbol just above the red slider.

Check that the vertical writing alongside the slider shows "Line-in/Mic-in" instead of "What you hear".

Did that not make any difference?

brucek

I did do as instructed, but Line In was still not in the list.

Quote:

JohnM wrote:

Because the SB Live 24 uses the same input channel for both mic and line in which it labels MICROPHONE, the unit detects which is connected. Select the input called MICROPHONE in REW.

Thanks John, I will use the Line In and select Microphone and see if that works.

Next question. I thought I would use the optical out, and it does work, until I got to the step to calibrate the sound card and realized, oops, I can't connect the Opt Out to the Line In. Since the Live 24 has speaker pair outputs (L/R main, L/R surround, Center/Sub), which pair should I use as the output. I do have an optical in and an analog L/R input on the front of my Denon AVR-3805 that I will use for the input. It looks like the Live will encode the LFE channel to the mains out if 2.1 is selected. So, is the L/R main output what I want to use? If I want to run REW on all speakers, do I just select a different output connector for the different channels or will setting the Live to 5.1 encode all channels to the L/R main output? Will the Denon be able to decode all channels from the analog inputs? I know I can just try this, but I have to run out and buy more cables, so I thought I might get an answer before I get another unusable cable.

**JohnM** · **09-25-06, 07:48 AM**

Yes, use the L/R outputs. You will only be able to send signals to the left & right speakers and sub, I don't believe the Denon has any facility to route a signal from the L/R input to another speaker. If the Denon has bypass inputs for all speakers you could connect the REW signals to the various bypass inputs in turn and measure other speakers that way, but bass management may not be applied to the bypass inputs.

**ransac** · **09-25-06, 02:47 PM**

Thanks again, John. I do have discreet inputs, but due to the electronics being in an entertainment center, they are almost impossible to get to. I will settle for the mains and sub for now. I may use the optical out just to take measurements.

**Hakka** · **09-27-06, 02:05 AM**

Quote:

ransac wrote:

Thanks again, John. I do have discreet inputs, but due to the electronics being in an entertainment center, they are almost impossible to get to. I will settle for the mains and sub for now. I may use the optical out just to take measurements.

You could always disconnect the speaker wire at you main speakers and connect it to your center/surrounds to take a measurement of these speakers. You receiver will use its bass management circuitry. Easier than getting in behind a cabinet and changing plugs.

Harry.

**1984911Porsche** · **12-08-06, 10:39 PM**

Thanks for the great information.

**Ciscokid** · **01-05-07, 03:38 PM**

Please help, I have been tring to get REW calibrated with no success. First off let me try and explain what I have done so far. I have started off with the Room EQ index getting started. I have a radio shack meter, Soundblaster live 24 card (external). I purchased all the necessary cables needed to hook it up.I have an Outlaw 990 reciever.I hooked the line in (not mic in) of the SB live to my sound meter with the Y cable .I hooked my Aux in of my reciever to the SB live front speaker plug with Y cable on the right side as stated. I read the thread on how to set up the sound card that JohnM posted. Now when I try and SET INPUT VOLUME I get a message saying (Input volume control is at its maximum) and it will not calibrate.I have tried changing the CHOSE INPUT to Microphone and what U hear and this makes no difference.I have played with the volume level starting it at zero when I click the SET INPUT VOLUME and I still get the same message. I know I probably didn't explain myself very well but hope someone can help me figure this out.
Thanks for any information you can provide me.

**brucek** · **01-05-07, 04:06 PM**

Ciscokid,

You are likely setting an internal loopback monitor in the soundcard itself and so the input line is not functioning.

When REW can't see an input it will increase the level to max to try and correct the situation and the end result is the error you are getting.

This is the standard error people make with the soundblaster cards.

Did you read this thread over and also this thread over?

Perhaps best not to post in this Sticky thread. Perhaps start your own thread if you still have problems..

brucek

**Sonic Icons** · **01-07-07, 02:24 PM**

I am using almost the same setup as Ciscokid. (I mean the RS digital SPL meter and SoundBlaster Live! 24-bit USB, but not same AVR, I have a Marantz SR5500.) I went through the same steps with the same results. My interpretation of what's happening is different from the interpretation of Brucek. I think that the error message you are getting at the "Set Input Volume" step is unimportant, and you should go on to the next steps and take measurements.

Here is what I mean:

(1) When you "Set Measurement Level" (the first step, after connecting all the cables and turning everything on) you set the volume control on the AVR to get a reading of 75 dB on the 80 dB scale on the SPL meter. During this step, you either leave the Master Volume Control on the SoundBlaster card at 50% of full scale, where the program automatically sets it, or manually raise the SoundBlaster volume control to 100% in the Surround Mixer panel, as suggested in this thread.

Note that 75 dB on the SPL meter is also "-20 dB relative to full scale" in REW, in other words 95 dB on the SPL meter would be equivalent to "full scale" or "reference level" or "0 dB relative level" in REW. I found this concept confusing at first, but I from what I've read, I think this is standard practice for audio and recording engineers (I mean, defining a "full scale" or "reference level" and then giving SPL levels in dB relative to that reference level).

(2) Then the next step (before any other calibrations or measurements) is Set Input Volume. In this step, for some reason that I can't understand (

), REW tries to raise the volume of the pink noise tone to get a reading of -18 dB relative (or 77 dB absolute) from the SPL meter, rather than -20 dB relative where you just set it in the step before.

But maybe REW cannot raise the volume from -20 dB to -18 dB relative, either because the SoundBlaster volume control is already at 100% and can't go higher, or because, even if the SoundBlaster volume control is less than 100%, REW cannot adjust this control ("some soundcards do not provide programmatic access to their input volume control").

So you get an error message which is effectively saying "I'm unhappy because I couldn't automatically adjust the volume control to raise the volume from -20 dB to -18 dB, but that doesn't really matter much, so ignore my complaint and keep going".

(Let me know if my interpretation is wrong, I just did 30 separate measurements, 5 speakers * 6 positions of SPL in room, and I think the results are good in spite of always getting the "Set Input Volume" error message.)

**Sonic Icons** · **01-07-07, 02:36 PM**

BTW: more thanks for the great information about setting up the SoundBlaster Live! card earlier in this thread, I wouldn't hav

Advertisement