HLR6167WAX/XAA Digital board problems

**bragginz** · **09-01-09, 10:43 AM**

OK, here's the summary of the surgery I performed on my HL-R5067W.

I basically used the same materials as tito (#8-32x1/4" bolt and pronged tee nut at the end). But I knew going into this that I'd need something at the end of the tee nut to get more uniform pressure across the entire DNIe BGA chip. If a failure is going to occur on a BGA, it's usually due to warpage through various thermal cycles, thus creating significant stress on the corner edges of the package. This makes the corner BGA balls on the substrate tend to crack or even pop off in some cases. Because there's a wire bonded mold cap on the top of the DNIe chip, it's impossible to get pressure across the entire DNIe package by simply bolting something in the center (just over the black mold cap). The corner balls under the green substrate are still exposed. Best case scenario would be to use a "top hat" heat spreader with a cavity that goes over the mold cap, with the edges directly touching the outer edges of the substrate. Something like this.

I had a square Cu heat sink that I was hoping to use, but it turns out it was too big. So I had to improvise, and needed something just to prove that some kind of pressure on the DNIe chip would fix my problem. Best thing I could find around the house was a half dollar coin that extended beyond the diameter of the tee nut. NOT the best long term solution (especially since it's round), but good enough for a first try I guess.

Here are the photos of my "teardown."

All back covers off:

Gutted DLP after removing analog / digital board cage:

Cage removed:

Digital board housing after removing cage:

Digital board exposed, with DNIe chip in bottom right hand corner:

My first crack at the clamp using a half dollar on the end:

Outside view of installed clamp (you can barely make out the coin inside the housing):

Side view of digital board after clamp installed. Tight fit!

I had a slight scare when putting everything back together. TV appeared dead. Turns out I just had a connector in the wrong spot. But I must say... after installing the clamp, the TV was without ANY issues for the first couple of hours that I had it on.

But...if problems resurface in the future, I'll suspect it's because there's not sufficient pressure to the entire DNIe chip. The problem is we don't know exactly how much pressure is enough, and whether it's truly uniform pressure across the whole chip. But as a quick fix, I'm pretty happy with the solution that was figured out by Jason1976 and the subsequent improvements made by others on the forum. I'll continue to monitor my TV's performance and let everyone know how it works over the next few days. In all, I was only out 2 bucks for the clamp / bolt fix. Well, $2.50 if you count the half dollar coin I used...

**lcaillo** · **09-01-09, 01:35 PM**

Start with just a little pressure and increase until it works. That is the nice thing about using a bolt and nuts. You can control the amount of tension.

**Jason1976** · **09-01-09, 04:16 PM**

Quote:

lcaillo wrote:

Start with just a little pressure and increase until it works. That is the nice thing about using a bolt and nuts. You can control the amount of tension.

lcaillo have you had any issues? it looks like the end you use against the chip may of put more even pressure accross the hole chip. looks larger then what tito used. all we need to do is come up with a camp that we can sell on ebay. 30 dollars for 3 dollars in parts.

**bragginz** · **09-01-09, 10:15 PM**

Well....my symptoms re-emerged after installing my clamp.

My biggest problem is the picture freezing and the input going in and out at random times. Could be 10 seconds or 30 seconds long. Really irritating.

I'll toy around with the clamp and see if I can get it to work better. But I'm inclined to think that there's something inherently wrong with some DNIe chips or other IC's in these DLP sets. Not just the solder connection. Maybe with some more trial and error we can find a definitive fix.

**lcaillo** · **09-01-09, 10:18 PM**

I am not convinced that this is a reliable and long term fix. I would not suggest selling anything of the sort, as the results cannot be assured. This is just a bandaid on a chronic problem.

**Jason1976** · **09-02-09, 08:10 AM**

I was looking around on parts.com and they say this board is used in models I didn't even know about the 67" model.

Samsung HLR4667W1X/XAA
Samsung HLR5067W1X/XAA
Samsung HLR5667WAX/XAA
Samsung HLR6167WAXXAP

Samsung HLR4667WAX
Samsung HLR5067WAX
Samsung HLR6167W1X/XAA
Samsung HLR6767WAX/XAA

Samsung HLR4667WAX/XAA
Samsung HLR5067WAXXAP
Samsung HLR6167WAX
Samsung HLR6767WAXXAP

Samsung HLR4667WAXXAP
Samsung HLR5667W1X/XAA
Samsung HLR6167WAX/XAA

**Jason1976** · **09-02-09, 08:12 AM**

Even if it is just a bandage on the issue, and they come back. it would let people test there tv's to see if it is the digital board. that way they would be ordering the correct part. my tv wouldn't even turn on the hole way.

I was thinking with the likely hood of this going bad again. I may just part the tv out. I talked to the person I bought this tv from and the digital board was replaced under warranty and I am guessing thats why it didn't have any glue on the cables. they said the digital board was replaced about a year and a half ago under extended warranty. I am thinking I can just sell off the antalog board and the light engine and any other parts that are removeable and just trash the cabnit. I could use the money to get a new tv without take to much out of pocket.

**tito** · **09-02-09, 05:03 PM**

Hey all,

FYI I "re-fixed" mine for the 3rd time last night. This time I used a water bottle cap under the board to prevent bowing and I used a coin (from Costa Rica nonetheless) on top to even the push pressure. So far so good, but no expecting it to make it through a week, but we'll see.

I'll report back and let you know how it goes. If it doesn't I'll either order a new board or price out how much I could get for parts like jason1976 said.

At least I can get the digital board out in about 3 minutes flat now. That's gotta be worth something!

Tito

**Jason1976** · **09-02-09, 06:25 PM**

tito I hope it works this time. I am not going to be around until the 7th or the 8th. I'm taking a trip but will be taking the laptop with me. I may pop in if i find a place with free wifi.

**FirehawkNS** · **09-04-09, 08:06 PM**

Hey all, found this thread through many a google search. I have two Samsung Tv's bought at the same time (50" and 56") both started this issue at the same time. Did this trick on the 56" and it seems to be working normally. Will try it on the other tv tomorrow and will report back with how well this works over time as well.

**lcaillo** · **09-04-09, 08:10 PM**

Note that there has been mixed success with the procedure. This is likely because there are other reasons for problems other than the connections on the DNIE chip, and that it is possible that pressure on the chip could open other connections as well as fix the ones that we have had success with. Also, the amount of pressure needed may vary. Some may need little, some may need more, and some may not be repairable at all with this method. At best it is a patch and not a true solution to the underlying problem.

**tito** · **09-05-09, 12:05 AM**

Tito here. My fix finally gave way yet again today with power-on issues

I'm going to break down and order a replacement digital board and hope that keeps me running for a while longer as I can't take the every 3 day repairs that don't hold.

I've searched around and actually found two places to buy the bp94-02084a part from , one in stock, but would like advice on which I should order from:

Here's the cheapest deal with a board for $188 after $50/hr core rebate , but there's none in stock with no ETA.
https://www.encompassparts.com/webwi...number=6492807

Here's the place that claims to have it in stock for $269.95 but doesn't mention a core rebate for my board
http://www.partstore.com/Part/Samsun...2084A/New.aspx

I'll call partstore and ask about the core charge rebate tomorrow, but wondered if anyone has experience with either of these vendors or how long the backorder will be with encompass.

Thanks.

**lcaillo** · **09-05-09, 08:34 AM**

Have you checked samsungparts.com? Last I checked they had it in stock for the same price as encompass.

**tito** · **09-05-09, 10:29 AM**

Thanks lcaillo. Ordered it this morning. Crossing my fingers this let's me get back to my "normal" evening activities in stead of wrestling TVs.

At least I'm VERY well practiced in taking out the board. I'll run a timer of how long it takes me to install the new board

**Jason1976** · **09-05-09, 10:41 AM**

it should work for you tito. I am just afraid the new board will go bad in like 2.5 to 3 years. I was checking my email on the hotels free wifi. but they want to charge like 13 dollars a day to have the internet in the rooms. but wifi is free in public areas.

**nothing4free** · **09-05-09, 11:52 AM**

thank you everyone for all the info. I too have this problem and spent 3 nights on it. Tried the hack but no go. Now I am trying just to have it work with VGA only and use as a monitor.

It has been unplugged overnight waiting for it to reset.

Does anyone know of a different way to reset the TV?

Everything turns on but I can not switch source to VGA so no video.

Tito, I have used all 3 of those stores and my feedback is all are fast and trustworthy.

**Jayfore** · **09-06-09, 01:01 AM**

Total price from samsungparts is $253.69, and then would come the core charge. Not too bad, considering I was quoted $800 for the part and $300 to install it, from the only Samsung-certified repair shop in my state!

I have the exact problems mentioned here -- screen image will freeze at random, green horizontal bars will appear on the screen at times, and also a sequence of dots, in a grid-type pattern, covering the entire screen image (this is a new one, as of the last time I tried to watch the TV). I'll note that the TV seemed to work OK for a short while, after having been unplugged from the wall for a few hours. I have not attempted the hack, or taking anything apart yet. I'm a bit afraid to, but I will have to. I simply cannot allow myself to buy another TV after 3.5 years of use w/ my current one.

My issue now is with the settings... I read that if a new board is installed, settings will likely need to be configured on the new board, and that this is something that a pro should (probably) do:

Quote:

lcaillo wrote:

I pulled the board back out to test the new one that I just got from Samsung. Turns out that the new board was NOT set up even close. It was set in the service menu for a Zeiss engine rather than a Samsung and this flips the horizontal image so the menus were backwards. All of the settings were off, but luckily there is an option to copy the data from the light engine back to the digital board. Still, this is a good example of why I discourage people swapping boards. There can be lots of issues, and unless you know your way around the service modes, have the documentation, have access to tech support at the manufacturer, or are just lucky, you can easily get in over your head. Especially with Samsung.

Since we see that the hack is not working well as a long term solution, this means that a new board is the true solution. Would it be possible to get instructions on what needs to be done once it's been installed, as far as configuration, etc? I would hate to get this new part, and then have it be useless to me.

THANKS FOR ALL YOUR WORK AND INFORMATION SO FAR!

**lcaillo** · **09-06-09, 07:45 AM**

The core charge is usually included in the price, then you get credit when it is returned.

As I said before, I do not have confidence that the new boards will be any better than the originals, but maybe they figured it out. We just don't know. Be aware when you make an investment in parts that color wheels and light tunnels, along with DMD board problems, are very very common in these sets.

When you install the new board, go into the service menu and select DMD-Digital to copy data from the light engine to the chassis. This will minimize settings, but will not substitute for a full calibration. There are also numerous settings which are not well documented regarding their effect and scope. You likely already know more than the service center, however, and the service documentation is rather thin with regard to the service menu settings.

**Jayfore** · **09-06-09, 12:03 PM**

Quote:

lcaillo wrote:

Be aware when you make an investment in parts that color wheels and light tunnels, along with DMD board problems, are very very common in these sets.

What is DMD? As for all these problems, are you saying that it's quite likely that I could replace this board, and then get some other failure within a short time? Ugh. Are LCDs prone to problems also? Seems like all TVs are nowadays, but if I buy something new, I want to try to make the best choice possible. On AVSFORUM, it seems that people like the Samsung B750 LCD, but that's over $2k. If I have to buy another TV, I would like it to cost around what this DLP did, which was around $1300... But I want to get something that is more likely to last.

**lcaillo** · **09-06-09, 10:35 PM**

Generally, the Samsung DLP sets have been rather service intensive. The LCD sets may be better but I still don't trust Samsung as much as the Japanese manufacturers.

DMD is digital micromirror device and is the DLP chip itself. The DMD board is the board on the back of the light engine that controls the DMD.

Whether a set is more or less likely to last is a hard thing to predict. What I can tell you is that I service all brands for several dealers, and I fix a lot of Samsung. I have a dealer who sells mostly Mitsubishi and Sony and they don't have enough work to keep me busy on that stuff. The first gen Mits DLPs had batches of bad capacitors that caused lots of problems, but none of their sets have ever had many failures in light tunnels, color wheels, DMD boards, nor lamps. Samsung sets will put lots of tech's kids through college.

**Jayfore** · **09-07-09, 02:33 AM**

Thank you for that! I will stay away from another Samsung. After this money out the window, I really do need to move on to a different manufacturer. What are your experiences w/ Vizio? I am just starting my research, but heard they are US-based. I'm thinking that is either incorrect, their products are not that great, or both. Leaning toward a Sony Bravia, perhaps, but again, have done almost no research. Need to look into Panasonic, Sharp, Mitsubishi, etc.

**lcaillo** · **09-07-09, 09:07 AM**

Please start another thread to discuss the decision making regarding purchasing a ne w set. This is really off topic here. Keep some perspective, however. My comments on Samsung are relative to the Japanese makers. At least they have serious service and parts support, which a company like Vizio does not. Calling them US-based is sort of like advertising "LED" tvs. Vizio is basically a name that gets put on the front of products that are made in china or wherever the cheapest production is this month. I would not rule out a Samsung set, but I would shop for an extended warranty if you don't have the ability to consider what you buy disposable.

**brucek** · **09-07-09, 09:15 AM**

Quote:

Thank you for that! I will stay away from another Samsung.

I've done a little research into the reliability of the LCD televisions from the various manufacturers and I don't get the sense that today Samsung is any less reliable than Toshiba, Panasonic, Sharp, or Sony. I see no reason to exclude them, unless you've discovered something that I may not have read.

It's easy to find sample-of-one anecdotal evidence on the internet from someone who's TV died and now they crusade against that manufacturer, but I don't find credible reports that Samsung is to be avoided.

brucek

**lcaillo** · **09-07-09, 09:42 AM**

Like I said, you have to keep perspective, and we are talking about different technologies. There does seem to be a clear trend in Samsung to buy market share by building things as cheap as they can while getting high performance. We just see lots of varied problems in many of their products, while the better manufacturers seem to have less random failures. All have dogs every now and then, but the better ones seem to have occassional patterns of failures due to supplier problems.

Keep in mind that many of the LCD vendors are sharing manufacturing or outsourcing panels, if not entire sets. It is hard to generalize reliability when suppliers change year to year, or even monthly. What you can generalize is the service support and consumer relations response to problems. In this regard, the Japanese products still stand above the rest.

This needs to end this discussion here. This is a very important area that needs its own thread and is off-topic here.

**Scott5** · **09-08-09, 11:12 PM**

Thanks everyone for all the hard work and great information. I tried the fix, which worked for about a day, but then my problems reappeared. I went ahead and ordered a replacement digital board. After installing the digital board, my original problems seemed to have been solved (at least for now), but when I turn my TV on the picture is upside down. I followed lcaillo's directions and tried to copy the settings from the light engine using the "DMD --> Digital" option, but I received an "ERR" message. Any advice on how I can fix my picture? Thanks!

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