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Old 08-24-09, 06:08 PM   #1
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I started this thread.
HLR6167WAX/XAA Digital board problems


This set started having problems with tiling when cold, going green with patterns of lines, and other patterns of distorted images. It would clear up when run for a couple of hours. At the time, the digital board was on backorder, and in order to get the client up and running, I pulled the digital board from my personal set and installed it. This worked, assuring me that the digital board was the problem. I transferred the bad board to my set, and it had the same issues. After using it a while longer, it began having other symptoms, including locking up with no pix and turning off. Eventually, the set would start the lamp, never have any video nor any sound, then shut down after about a minute. It remained that way for a couple of months while I waited on a board.

Along the way, I have heard from a couple of sites, including Jason1976 here, that the problem may be connections on the DNIE chip on the digital board, near the DVI connector at the back side of the board. Apparently people were having success applying pressure to this chip. It is a BGA type (Ball Grid Array) that has pins underneath that contact points on the board. This is becoming common with high density ICs where external pin connections require larger size chips, tighter spacing, and geometries that are not efficient for the design of the chip. There are good reasons to use BGA, but they can be difficult to solder properly. Apparently, Samsung has had some issues with this chip.

One solution is to try to re-flow the slder. I don't suggest this for anyone without the right equipment. It is very easy to heat the wrong parts or overheat the chip, board, or related parts.

So I decided to experiment. I received the new board that had been on backorder, but figured I would play with the bad one as an experiment. The board is encased in a metal housing with holes. I looked in my shop for something that might fit between the chip and housing to put some pressure on the chip. I found a small bolt that happened to be just a litte too long to fit between the chip and the metal housing above it. I fitted it in, then pushed the edges of the housing down to where I could put the screws holding it all together back in. There was significant tension on the bolt, with the larger hex head end standing on the chip and the tip of the screw fitting against the metal housing (bolt standing on its head on top of the chip). It took a little pressure to get the screws back in, which was good, as it used the housing like a large spring pushing down on the bolt, which put a great deal of pressure on the chip. Simple solution if this is the problem.

The result is that the set fired up the first time and has run fine since. I don't know how long it will work, but I will run it and see. I have the other board, if anyone needs one. Keeping it will cost me an extra $50 on top of its cost, as it does have a core value and we normally send them back for credit. It will be worth it to have a new board on hand if my solution fails, or if another client needs one.

The part number for the digital board for this set is BP94-02084A. This is for the HLR6167WAX/XAA, L64C chassis type. You need to verify all of the suffixes on the service model and the chassis number to get the right board for Samsung sets, particularly these. There were many production changes and versions of these sets and some differences in the boards. Some even reportedly need to have the analog and digital boards changed together for some reason, but this one does not.


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Old 08-24-09, 09:41 PM   #2
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I started this thread.
Re: HLR6167WAX/XAA Digital board problems


I pulled the board back out to test the new one that I just got from Samsung. Turns out that the new board was NOT set up even close. It was set in the service menu for a Zeiss engine rather than a Samsung and this flips the horizontal image so the menus were backwards. All of the settings were off, but luckily there is an option to copy the data from the light engine back to the digital board. Still, this is a good example of why I discourage people swapping boards. There can be lots of issues, and unless you know your way around the service modes, have the documentation, have access to tech support at the manufacturer, or are just lucky, you can easily get in over your head. Especially with Samsung.

Not being the type to stay content with a simple fix, and not liking the idea of a bolt just held in place by pressure, I decided to mod the mod a bit. A few nuts, washers, and a long bolt from a toggle, cut to fit, and I have a very secure way of applying pressure more evenly to the chip. And I can adjust the tension so that it is easier to get the screws in the housing.

Here are some pix of the mod.

The gator has nothing to do with this of course, but I had to throw it in. My son, Evan, took that one while we were fishing on the Suwanee River last week.

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"I attribute the little I know to my not having been ashamed to ask for information, and to my rule of conversing with all descriptions of men on those topics that form their own peculiar professions and pursuits." John Locke

Leonard Caillouet MS, CET, MST, ISF

Need Electronic Repairs? Look to these guys first. The Pro Squad are some of the most experienced and reputable servicers anywhere.
http://www.theprosquad.com/index2.aspx


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Old 08-24-09, 10:59 PM   #3
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Tito
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Re: HLR6167WAX/XAA Digital board problems


Thanks much for posting the details on this fix. Great stuff and I hope this works for me.

I'm wanting to try this on my HLR5067WAX/XAA and would appreciate some basic guidance. I opened the large back panel and I think the board I'm looking for is the one with the digital input connectors on it (VGA, HDMI, anynet, g-link, and digital audio out (optical)) as this has a sticker with part bp-94-02084a on it. Had to take off the gray connector plate on the left when looking from the back of the TV and it's at the bottom of that area. Can you please confirm this is the right board to target?

What is the best approach to free the board? Remove the whole chassis with the top board on it with all the analog connectors on it too? There are LOTS of connectors to the top board from other parts of the TV that would have to be removed. But when I try and slide out just the lower digital board there are multiple connectors between it and the top board (analog board I assume) that are connected in the back and hard to reach to free just the digital board. If I need to unplug all the connectors to the top board, so be it, but there were so many I had to stop and ask if I'm crazy.

So far, I unscrewed the big white DVI looking connector on the right side of it to free it up to pull out. I also removed a black small cable from the top of the vertical part of the housing and had to unscrew a gray fan box that was on the board above preventing me from pulling out the housing. As I started pulling I noticed a multi-pin ribbon connector between the top and bottom board and unplugged it only to find there were many more similar connections. I then went to remove the whole chassis but need confirmation that's the best way.

Any detail around removing and getting to the digital board would be appreciated.

Tito


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Old 08-25-09, 01:26 AM   #4
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Re: HLR6167WAX/XAA Digital board problems


Quote:
tito wrote: View Post
Thanks much for posting the details on this fix. Great stuff and I hope this works for me.

I'm wanting to try this on my HLR5067WAX/XAA and would appreciate some basic guidance. I opened the large back panel and I think the board I'm looking for is the one with the digital input connectors on it (VGA, HDMI, anynet, g-link, and digital audio out (optical)) as this has a sticker with part bp-94-02084a on it. Had to take off the gray connector plate on the left when looking from the back of the TV and it's at the bottom of that area. Can you please confirm this is the right board to target?

What is the best approach to free the board? Remove the whole chassis with the top board on it with all the analog connectors on it too? There are LOTS of connectors to the top board from other parts of the TV that would have to be removed. But when I try and slide out just the lower digital board there are multiple connectors between it and the top board (analog board I assume) that are connected in the back and hard to reach to free just the digital board. If I need to unplug all the connectors to the top board, so be it, but there were so many I had to stop and ask if I'm crazy.

So far, I unscrewed the big white DVI looking connector on the right side of it to free it up to pull out. I also removed a black small cable from the top of the vertical part of the housing and had to unscrew a gray fan box that was on the board above preventing me from pulling out the housing. As I started pulling I noticed a multi-pin ribbon connector between the top and bottom board and unplugged it only to find there were many more similar connections. I then went to remove the whole chassis but need confirmation that's the best way.

Any detail around removing and getting to the digital board would be appreciated.

Tito
That's the correct board. There are 3 cables that unhook from the top board to the bottom digital board. It can be unplugged from the back but it's easyer to unplug all the top wires and remove the hole thing at once. Whats nice is they are all different sizes you don't have to worry about plugging them into the wrong spots. Just make sure you dont forget to plug any of them in.

It seams that samsung tv's that have this board number BP94-02084A have issues with the digital board. All the models that used it have the same issue. Why hasn't samsung had a recall on these boards? we need to make a list of tv's that use it. we know that HLR6167WAX/XAA, and HLR5067WAX/XAA use it but are there other models that use it like the HLR4667WAX/XAA I am thinking that most of the tv's with model HLR___67WAX/XAA may all use this board.


Last edited by Jason1976; 08-25-09 at 08:15 AM..

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Old 08-25-09, 01:35 AM   #5
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Re: HLR6167WAX/XAA Digital board problems


I beleave I am the first one to come up with putting pressure on that chip. I posted info about doing this on other sites after I had luck trying it. There was no info about doing this until I tried it. I like your way of putting pressure on the chip. It's a lot better then the foil Idea I had.

how much do you want for the board? remember I tried to remelt the solder after someone told me to try a heat gun and it killed mine. I would have to send you my old board for the core charge.

lcaillo how much would you charge a customer to do this kind of repair? useing a bolt, washers, and nuts.


Last edited by Jason1976; 08-25-09 at 02:01 AM..

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Old 08-25-09, 01:32 PM   #6
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Don
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Re: HLR6167WAX/XAA Digital board problems


Not being in the business but owning an HLR6167WAX/XAA and encountering this very problem, I am wondering what this type of repair will cost me and if it is something I could do. I build computers and other electronics but have never worked on a TV. Also wondering if I woudl be able to order the digital board it sounds like I need.


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Old 08-25-09, 04:10 PM   #7
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Jason
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Re: HLR6167WAX/XAA Digital board problems


Huffman.hippy

normaly repair shops replace the board. I came up with the idea of putting pressure on the chip not that long ago and people are still testing to see if it's going to last. you could try this yourself if you are handy. if you are not handy you may want to print this out and take it to a local repair shop to see if they could try this and see how much they would charge. but you may want to wait to see if this idea works for the long run. wait a few weeks and check back. but if you are handy you could try this and keep us informed if you have any issues or if this is working for you. you may want to look at my thread also. it shows you what chip you need to put the pressure on. the bolt idea lcaillo did is a better idea then my foil idea. over time the foil may compact and may not keep it tight like the bolt idea lcaillo used.

The board is around 238 dollars on average. but if this fix works it would just cost for A few nuts, washers, and a long bolt cut to fit,

http://www.samsungparts.com/part_det...model=HLR6167W <---- link for the board

ps the board is normaly on backorder.

from what the web page says this board is used in models HLR4667W, HLR5067W, HLR5667W, HLR6167W


Last edited by Jason1976; 08-25-09 at 04:19 PM..

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Old 08-26-09, 11:47 PM   #8
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Talking Re: HLR6167WAX/XAA Digital board problems


I have initial good news to report.

I just finished implementing this chip pressure hack/fix and have been 2 for 2 on successful power-ups since. We'll see how consistent it is over time and I'll report back here.

Many thanks to Jason1976 and lcaillo who proposed and then refined this fix/hack. I took some pictures and plan to add to a post detailing the process of implementing the hack to help others determine if they want to go for it on their own. I also will include the Home Depot part info I used to craft my "pressure device" for under $3.

I've never done TV work before, just built a few simple PCs and found the process tedious and daunting at times, but in retospect not to difficult or prone to error. Definitely glad I tried it and hope this fixes the annoying issues that rendered my TV previously mostly broken.


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Old 08-29-09, 01:59 PM   #9

Scott
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Re: HLR6167WAX/XAA Digital board problems


Tito --

Glad to hear that this fix has been successful. I'd appreciate seeing pictures and receiving other info about your pressure device (including the Home Depot part info, if you have it). I seem to be having the same problem with my Samsung DLP and would like to try this fix before replacing the board. Thanks!


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Old 08-29-09, 10:39 PM   #10
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Tito
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Talking Re: HLR6167WAX/XAA Digital board problems


OK here's the full report.

Since the fix the TV has worked perfectly each time I've turned it on (at least 15 times) so this change definitely did the trick as before it was closer to 10% or worse success rate. I've built a couple simple PCs and was determined to do this myself. Here are my thoughts on the process:

Took off the back panel and didn't know where to start. Have to take off the smaller cover that's over the input ports. This board is in the enclosure to the left when looking at the back. You'll see two horizontal boards the top one is the analog board and the bottom is the digital board that we're after. It has all the digital inputs on it (HDMI, digital audio, VGA, etc). To get it you have to get the whole enclosure out and then remove the three connecting cables between the two boards at the back. My cables had glue around each clip so no other way than to take out the whole thing and get the glue off to loosen the cables.

I had to remove lots of cables to free the enclosure. Just take any cable off you see that's coming from outside the enclosure and make notes if necessary as to where they all go back. Was worried about this at the time but was easy to put back together as they all are different sizes and only go one place. After freeing all the connections and removing the one (I think) screw I was able to pull the enclosure out. From there you'll see the three ribbon cables connecting both boards. Mine had glue on each release clamp (not helpful) so I went after the glue with tweezers and was able to finally get them all off on the digital board side to disconnect them all. Easier to tweeze a big clump off and hope it takes the rest with it. After doing that you can pull out the smaller lower enclosure around the digital board (along with the coax inputs part on it on the side sticking up). Then just had to play with the enclosure and remove the little threads around the VGA connector and a nut behind each coax connector to finally open the enclosure to expose the digital board!

Now, we're trying to put pressure against the Dnite chip on the front right side of the board (jason1976? has a picture of it in his post). It didn't feel loose to the touch. I took the smaller enclosure and the board to Home Depot to figure out parts to use. Bought a #8-32x1-1/4" machine round head slotted bolt (with nuts) and a #8-32x1/4" nuts (doesn't have description/type so look at my pics below) and got some rubber washers but those are optional. I simply put the bolt through the best hole in the enclosure with a nut on top and one on bottom to tighten the bolt to the enclosure with the bolt as far into the enclosure as possible so it would fit in the larger enclosure. I then put the special nut on the end which provided a flat surface to push evenly against the chip. I just adjusted the pressure by adjusting the end nut and made sure there was "firm" pressure when the enclosure was closed up.

I then just put everything back together and reconnected cables and closed it up and crossed my fingers. To my delight, the TV has been perfect ever since.

Hope this helps others try this fix and hope it works for you too! Not buying a new digital board rules

The back of the TV with the enclosure removed (note the many disconnected wires)
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Here's the flat nut thing that provided pressure. Screwed onto bolt and was easily adjustable.
Name:  PressureNut.JPG
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Here's the top of the enclosure with the bolt as low profile as possible
Name:  Topside1.JPG
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