The Official $2,500 Speaker Evaluation / Home Audition Event - Page 55 - Home Theater Forum and Systems - HomeTheaterShack.com

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post #541 of 1075 Old 11-03-13, 02:18 AM
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Re: The Official $2,500 Speaker Evaluation / Home Audition Event

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Ask the man something -- anything! -- about audio and guaranteed he has an answer. He forgets nothing, and if he hasn't done it himself he's done research on it. Ticks me off actually, because I can't remember half of what I've learned along the way...
It is Sunday moring, 2 A.M. (or is it 1 A.M.? or 3 A.M.? did the time change yet? are you detecting any sleep-deprived confusion?), and we have tales to tell. Weill be part of the writeup.
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post #542 of 1075 Old 11-03-13, 02:20 AM
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Re: The Official $2,500 Speaker Evaluation / Home Audition Event

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It is Sunday moring, 2 A.M. (or is it 1 A.M.; did the time change yet? are you detecting any sleep-deprived confusion?), and we have tales to tell. Weill be part of the writeup.
Exhausted - must sleep......
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post #543 of 1075 Old 11-03-13, 03:08 AM
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Re: The Official $2,500 Speaker Evaluation / Home Audition Event

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We are concluding that stages, like the one Sonnie has for his HT, are not a good idea for serious 2 channel listening. The height of the speaker is not ideal for music, but fine for movies with the screen height. Also, we continue to confirm that for best soundstage farther out into the room is generally better, up to the point that the listening position can accommodate. Rear ported and dipoles seem to also benefit more from moving away from the front wall.

Speaker toe in angle has been consistently found to be critical for best image presentation, more with some speakers than others, but to some degree with all.

These sessions also confirm what I learned last time about listening position. I can learn a lot from listening from the second row, or even walking around the room. The limits of the sweet spot and the ability to reveal detail can be learned from outside the prime listening position. When I hear the delicacy of how some speakers handle things like harmonies from the back row, I know there is something special going on. Not having the distraction (perhaps a poor choice of words there ) of the image and soundstage presentation can actually afford attending to other aspects of the sound.
When you say not the right height does that mean the room is sloping down, are they below or above your seated listening position?

I always find it difficult to get the tow in right as I try to be a bit unselfish for my Wife's sake and toe in the speakers so they are just outside our listening positions, either side of the couch. I wonder how much difference it will make if I toe them in so they are either side of just 'my' ears, I'm sure she wouldn't even notice

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post #544 of 1075 Old 11-03-13, 08:49 AM
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When you say not the right height does that mean the room is sloping down, are they below or above your seated listening position? I always find it difficult to get the tow in right as I try to be a bit unselfish for my Wife's sake and toe in the speakers so they are just outside our listening positions, either side of the couch. I wonder how much difference it will make if I toe them in so they are either side of just 'my' ears, I'm sure she wouldn't even notice Marty
I believe he's saying with the speakers on the stage they are above the listening position. Hence the reason they have to put the speakers so far out into the room to get them off the stage. Toe in IMO is pretty important. You toe them in to much and you seem to loose a wide sound stage but have great imaging and focus. My speakers are set to where they fire about 2 ft to each side of my head. To me it that has a very wide soundstage, very deep (2ft away from wall) soundstage and the imaging with toe in makes it seem like the vocals are dead center of the room. I hope that all makes sense. I'm sure these guys will respond when they wake up though and explain a bit better in the write up on each speaker what they had to do to set them up properly.
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post #545 of 1075 Old 11-03-13, 09:39 AM
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Re: The Official $2,500 Speaker Evaluation / Home Audition Event

Mike has it - having them on the stage pushes the sweet spot up. In most cases, when we had the speakers on the stage, our best listening spot was when we sat forward in the chair and raised our head.

As far as sound and where you toe them in to, to be honest if your family is anything like mine, I am the only one who cares about pinpoint imaging and depth of soundstage. My wife and kids are more there for movies, and the center channel handles the central imaging there.
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post #546 of 1075 Old 11-03-13, 09:53 AM
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Re: The Official $2,500 Speaker Evaluation / Home Audition Event

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I believe he's saying with the speakers on the stage they are above the listening position. Hence the reason they have to put the speakers so far out into the room to get them off the stage.
That is one of the reasons. Getting the ears to the right height re the speakers has also affected frequency response - to a minor degree with some speakers and in a huge way with others. Depth and quality of soundstage have always been better with the speakers farther into the room, too.

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Toe in IMO is pretty important. You toe them in to much and you seem to loose a wide sound stage but have great imaging and focus. My speakers are set to where they fire about 2 ft to each side of my head. To me it that has a very wide soundstage, very deep (2ft away from wall) soundstage and the imaging with toe in makes it seem like the vocals are dead center of the room. I hope that all makes sense. I'm sure these guys will respond when they wake up though and explain a bit better in the write up on each speaker what they had to do to set them up properly.
Right on, except with the dipole designs where the LP was straight on-axis. Lots of detail to come in the writeup.

A couple of the speakers did not sound too bad up on the stage, but none were near as good as they were on the floor - right height and closer to the listener.
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post #547 of 1075 Old 11-03-13, 10:39 AM
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Re: The Official $2,500 Speaker Evaluation / Home Audition Event

'Closer to the listener' is very important in my opinion - the more the distance increases from you to the speaker, the more chance there is for bad things to happen to the FR, and vice versa. I strongly recommend the golden triangle for setting the L & R speakers and your seat.
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post #548 of 1075 Old 11-03-13, 10:54 AM
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Parties are an important use of speakers as well as serious listening. My B&W 801s handle both well. My listening room Montis are really best only for the properly place couch and serious listening or watching.
Be good to know how versatile the speakers are.
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post #549 of 1075 Old 11-03-13, 11:35 AM
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Re: The Official $2,500 Speaker Evaluation / Home Audition Event

It is probably more accurate to say that the ideal speaker placement is at a certain distance between the LP and the wall rather than "closer to the listener."
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post #550 of 1075 Old 11-03-13, 11:44 AM
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Re: The Official $2,500 Speaker Evaluation / Home Audition Event

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We have actually spent the last hour or so working on balancing out Sonnie's subs and integrating the Catalysts. Mark has been providing his considerable expertise - it is quite amazing what they have done to the response. Maybe we can get Wayne to post it up when things wind down....
Absolutely. It was fun to watch and we will do our best to present it to you in story mode. With photos and REW plots.
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