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post #691 of 1075 Old 11-13-13, 02:10 AM
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Re: The Official $2,500 Speaker Evaluation / Home Audition Event

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DougReim wrote: View Post
Which Cincinnati Pops album are you referring to?
I don't have any classical music and I'd like to give it a try, especially one that is recorded well.
Thanks
It is the Time Warp album from 1984. Here is the Amazon link.

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Just to clear up any confusion, you put Focals, but I have Dynaudio Focus 160s. The Focus line is 2 lines above the DMs you guys auditioned.

It's a fun cd to demo and show off your system.
Wow, beg pardon, I totally misread. That makes so much more sense. Thanks for clearing it up.

I have only been briefly introduced to Dynaudio bookshelf models, would love a chance to really get to know some like you have. I'll bet they are lots of fun. As much as we are enjoying evaluating tower speakers, I love the tight focus you can get from a really well-integrated smaller two-way system. I look forward to a future evaluation where we might get into bookshelves, and certainly hope it will include a Dynaudio model like the Focus or even the Contour or (dare I hope for it) the Confidence (probably way above any range we will work with, but one can wish).
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post #692 of 1075 Old 11-13-13, 04:49 AM
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Re: The Official $2,500 Speaker Evaluation / Home Audition Event

Thank you
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post #693 of 1075 Old 11-13-13, 08:18 AM
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Re: The Official $2,500 Speaker Evaluation / Home Audition Event

You guys continue to do great work.
It's so nice to read about the speakers from a 'normal' person's perspective that's not trying to get compensation from either selling it or endorsing it.
Taking the time to setup each speaker and the group report really makes it more meaningful in my opinion.
Adding a couple of measurements is also very much appreciated.

Even though it has not been my experience to find speakers that hold their own against speakers that cost more than 2x y'all have done more with the $2k evaluation to peak my interest in the ARX speakers than the original shoot out did.
The comment about the ARX lacking in the beauty department caught my attention though.
If y'all can weigh in on the astethitics a little more I would appreciate it.
Since I am most familiar with the vinyl finish on the Klipsch RF-62 how does the ARX compare to that?
How does the grill compare to the Klipsch?
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post #694 of 1075 Old 11-13-13, 09:12 AM
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Re: The Official $2,500 Speaker Evaluation / Home Audition Event

I am surprised by the optimal speaker placement being so far from the front walls. I expected they'd sound better pulled away from the walls than they would in the 'HT placement' positions, pushed back closer to the walls, but 6-7' is more than I'd expected. Just for grins, I may pull mine that far out just to see/hear what that does to my sound quality on my existing speakers.
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post #695 of 1075 Old 11-13-13, 10:11 AM
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Re: The Official $2,500 Speaker Evaluation / Home Audition Event

Too bad you didn't get to review the Martin Logan ESLs! Was interested in your evals on these speakers. Right now I have the ML Preface and now I got the bug to upgrade!!!
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post #696 of 1075 Old 11-13-13, 10:24 AM
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I have been surprised by the distance to the wall behind as well. In my room, 7 feet is nearly half way from the front wall to the back and would put the speakers 3 feet away from the plane of my listening position! The best I could reasonably do would probably be about 4 feet.

I had also assumed previously that speakers that far from boundaries would not produce quite enough bass. It doesn't sound like they had a problem with that here, and RMAF experiences suggested otherwise as well. So there go a couple of preconceived notions! Of course the bass issue is somewhat room dependent.
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post #697 of 1075 Old 11-13-13, 10:30 AM
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Re: The Official $2,500 Speaker Evaluation / Home Audition Event

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bkeeler10 wrote: View Post
I have been surprised by the distance to the wall behind as well. In my room, 7 feet is nearly half way from the front wall to the back and would put the speakers 3 feet away from the plane of my listening position! The best I could reasonably do would probably be about 4 feet.

I had also assumed previously that speakers that far from boundaries would not produce quite enough bass. It doesn't sound like they had a problem with that here, and RMAF experiences suggested otherwise as well. So there go a couple of preconceived notions! Of course the bass issue is somewhat room dependent.
Bryan,

I wonder if that distance from the wall might also have been an extension of the size of Sonnie's room. I have not really sat down and played with my system from a two channel standpoint as I have been in full on construction mode, but I wonder if I could obtain that same feel of depth with mine only 4 feet from the front wall as well as I am pretty much in the same boat you are.

An experiment for a different day - hopefully soon!

Joe
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post #698 of 1075 Old 11-13-13, 10:34 AM
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Re: The Official $2,500 Speaker Evaluation / Home Audition Event

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roger1014 wrote: View Post
Too bad you didn't get to review the Martin Logan ESLs! Was interested in your evals on these speakers. Right now I have the ML Preface and now I got the bug to upgrade!!!
Ask me what you need to know and maybe I can help, I dont think a review is proper as that will be done by the excellent staff here, but I can answer questions.
Having said that, with proper placement and driven with adequate electronics and in a not too large room, they are positively wonderful. No ands, ifs or buts. Not sure how they would fit in with many of the speakers in the test except the maggies which I have heard, but I cannot foresee anyone being disappointed, unless they are looking for bass that will stop your heart or head banging volume levels. IMO, they need a good sub for rock, large classical and movies, but alone they give you a broad spectrum of music that is good but not great on the bottom end and great on the upper mid range on where the stat takes over. They image tremendously although the sweet spot for more spot on imaging is more or less limited to one person, but less so that the maggies i think. Once you get them dialed in, and irrespective of what the Marin Logan website says, it takes a bit of experimentation, you can close your eyes and be transported to a place and time created by the music of your choice.

They do well for movies but may be a bit limited with ginormous soundtracks or if someone wants to listen constantly at 105db in a 30' x 30' room. To be sure of what I am saying I went ahead and put in the disk that made me a believer in ML speakers, albeit very expensive ones, and it is called U571.
Swoosh on to chapter 13 and turn it up to where the very very quiet parts occur wherein the sub crew is hiding from the depth charges, between explosions of course, is about 55-58db and let it run.
For me it was astonishing that these Logans did not blow up with the dept charges, considering the 8" woofers and a stat panel, but noooo they held on an made me move about in the chair as things were going nuts. Also, there is a scene when the camera sits outside the sub wherein the charges are going of in the far distance, the depth of image to the left side of the soundstage is stunning as the charges get closer and closer, each charge is well placed on the stage and gets louder and louder but follows the placement of the charges within inches. I was amazed at how hard those things hit us in a room, I cannot even imagine experiencing the charges for real under water in a tube.

Good Listening

Jack

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post #699 of 1075 Old 11-13-13, 11:39 AM Thread Starter
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Re: The Official $2,500 Speaker Evaluation / Home Audition Event

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chashint wrote: View Post
It's so nice to read about the speakers from a 'normal' person's perspective that's not trying to get compensation from either selling it or endorsing it.
This is very true and thanks for pointing it out. Despite having some sponsors involved, we are telling it like we hear it. I believe everyone can tell we are not playing favorites to our sponsors just because they are sponsors. Granted, TAI is a sponsor and sells the Arx, but it was like pulling hind teeth to get him to even send them to us, and then we were all pretty much NOT expecting a whole lot from from them. They were a total surprise to us. If I were a spiteful person, I would probably have tried to figure out a way to put the A5's down, just because I was none to happy with Jon Lane and his reluctance to send us his speakers... especially with his company being a sponsor. If anything I would think a sponsor would go out of their way to make sure we got their speakers included in the evaluation.

And even though it may not have been so good for HTD up front, it will end up helping them significantly in the long run, with our help in them discovering an issue they had with their tweeters.


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chashint wrote: View Post
The comment about the ARX lacking in the beauty department caught my attention though.
If y'all can weigh in on the astethitics a little more I would appreciate it.
Since I am most familiar with the vinyl finish on the Klipsch RF-62 how does the ARX compare to that?
How does the grill compare to the Klipsch?
The Arx are vinyl/PVC laminate... a simulated wood ash with seams at all edges. The base plate is more like what I would want in the entire speaker... a smooth satin black finish. The Klipsch 62's are pretty much the same vinyl laminate. If you step up to the 7's, I think you get real wood... or wood laminate... but then that's a whole different price category too. It was quite ironic that both the Arx and the Klipsch came in with crushed corners due to shipping damage. You could clearly tell they had been dropped from the box corners. FedEx ultimately took care of both (FTR).

This will give you a good idea of the finish comparison:



Klipsch RF62-II on left... Arx A5 on right. If I had to choose a finish based on these finishes, I would rather have the A5 finish, simply because I like the finer pitting of the wood grain and it has solid sheets on the entire sides/back/front... not wrapped side panels. They look better to me, but the drawback is having more of the seam on the edges, which might be easier to delaminate/peel. You still have some of the Klipsch seam on the top edges, but not the front and back, but I also don't like that seam where the side panel meets the back panel on the Klipsch. That just looks cheap to me, like a cheap built speaker.

IIRC, the Klipsch grills are push in like the A5 grills. Nothing really snazzy about either one, but they will do.

Suffice it to say, I don't like either finish. If I had my druthers... I would choose the HTD or Tekton finishes we had in the $1,000 round... a smooth satin black. I don't even like the finish on my Prodigy's, which is more of a rough black finish that is hard to clean. For cleaning, the smooth is the easiest... and the wood grains are not all that bad either.

What I would prefer if it just has to be wood grain is real wood veneer... and finished like MartinLogan finished their Motion 12 with seamless rounded back corners and what appears to be almost seamless front corners. I also like the magnetic grills of the Motion 12... very nice... and the top grill is all metal... again, very nice.

Front and back corners of the Motion 12, respectively:




Quote:
roger1014 wrote: View Post
Too bad you didn't get to review the Martin Logan ESLs! Was interested in your evals on these speakers. Right now I have the ML Preface and now I got the bug to upgrade!!!
They are being reviewed separately and it will be posted later.

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post #700 of 1075 Old 11-13-13, 12:05 PM Thread Starter
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Re: The Official $2,500 Speaker Evaluation / Home Audition Event

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english210 wrote: View Post
I am surprised by the optimal speaker placement being so far from the front walls. I expected they'd sound better pulled away from the walls than they would in the 'HT placement' positions, pushed back closer to the walls, but 6-7' is more than I'd expected. Just for grins, I may pull mine that far out just to see/hear what that does to my sound quality on my existing speakers.
Try pulling them out, but keep them narrow to begin with. Play a relatively short section of something that has excellent imaging that you can point out. Then begin moving them outward (toward the side walls) about 6" to 12" each time until that image starts to fall apart or gets confusing. Then move them back in to the previous spot where the image was its best, but the speakers are as far apart as possible. Experiment with toe-in... and at the same time on each toe, move your head forward and back while sitting in the PLP, so that you can determine where the best sound is... particularly depth acuity. You may have to experiment with the speaker distance from your front wall. You can move them closer to the front wall until you start to lose that depth, that is typically where you know you have hit that magic spot. Some speakers we have found have a larger area to work with than others, so YMMV.


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bkeeler10 wrote: View Post
I have been surprised by the distance to the wall behind as well. In my room, 7 feet is nearly half way from the front wall to the back and would put the speakers 3 feet away from the plane of my listening position! The best I could reasonably do would probably be about 4 feet.
So your room is 14' deep and you sit about 10' back from the front wall. Try the 4' and see how it sounds... but you could also try 5' and 6', which would put you 5' and 4' distance to plane. The Arx are 8' out and 5' to plane of PLP, but we found that 12-18" back did not make a drastic difference... and would be difficult to differentiate between listening sessions.


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bkeeler10 wrote: View Post
I had also assumed previously that speakers that far from boundaries would not produce quite enough bass. It doesn't sound like they had a problem with that here, and RMAF experiences suggested otherwise as well. So there go a couple of preconceived notions! Of course the bass issue is somewhat room dependent.
In my room, I have been finding that the bass is perhaps a bit too strong when nearer the front wall and gets more refined and tighter as the speakers moved out from the wall.

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