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post #741 of 1075 Old 11-14-13, 04:33 PM
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I place it on whichever side makes it easier to point at something that I can get it lined up with as a point source for both speakers. In some cases, like the Magnepan speakers, it is necessary to place it flat on top of the speaker with the edge of the laser parallel with the edge of the speaker, since it does not have a flat enough side to rest the laser. On my Prodigy's I use the bass cabinet and lie it flat on the side.

Thanks!
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post #742 of 1075 Old 11-14-13, 04:52 PM
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I place it on whichever side makes it easier to point at something that I can get it lined up with as a point source for both speakers. In some cases, like the Magnepan speakers, it is necessary to place it flat on top of the speaker with the edge of the laser parallel with the edge of the speaker, since it does not have a flat enough side to rest the laser. On my Prodigy's I use the bass cabinet and lie it flat on the side.
I have read comment where in this example the laser would actually be placed on the outside side of the speaker and then focused upon the opposite side of the LP (eg the other cup holder in this pic) so that both speakers toe in front of the LP. The theory being that with speakers that have any sory of decent dispersion pattern it will increase the enveloped area for listening so that head movement has less (zero) impact and maintains imaging.

Care to offer comments on any experience with that theory?
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post #743 of 1075 Old 11-14-13, 04:59 PM Thread Starter
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Re: The Official $2,500 Speaker Evaluation / Home Audition Event

Oh yeah... we have tried it with several speakers. I have definitely tried it with my ML's. I think I have tried about every conceivable angle, except turning them around 180.

It hasn't really worked thus far, not for any speakers I have tried it with. I know we tried it at least once this last time around with Wayne in the chair, but again, it was quick... didn't work and we continued right on.

As always, YMMV... but at every position try various toe angles. Obviously it is easier and quicker and MUCH easier to hear the differences if there are three of you... the one with good ears listening and two others quickly moving speakers with a laser each... boom boom boom... gotta get it... gotta gotta get it... (Hey Wayne, I am getting the rhythm now... very good indeed. )

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post #744 of 1075 Old 11-14-13, 05:06 PM
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Thanks Sonnie.

Did any of those speakers you tried it with have some form of a waveguide?

Just wondering if maybe that could have been the magic ingredient in the other positive comments read for it
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post #745 of 1075 Old 11-14-13, 05:57 PM
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Re: The Official $2,500 Speaker Evaluation / Home Audition Event

Quote:
K1LL3M wrote: View Post
I have read comment where in this example the laser would actually be placed on the outside side of the speaker and then focused upon the opposite side of the LP (eg the other cup holder in this pic) so that both speakers toe in front of the LP. The theory being that with speakers that have any sory of decent dispersion pattern it will increase the enveloped area for listening so that head movement has less (zero) impact and maintains imaging.

Care to offer comments on any experience with that theory?
Agree with Sonnie, we have tried it and not cared for the results, a narrow sounstage. Our results lean more toward the inner surface of the speaker lining up with the near cup holder.
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post #746 of 1075 Old 11-14-13, 05:59 PM
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Re: The Official $2,500 Speaker Evaluation / Home Audition Event

interesting comments on the svs initially being "bright" Sonnie. I myself can't stand bright speakers either, and in no way thought the ultras were of such. not even from day one. for 2ch listening I don't add any rc or processing just strictly direct mode. I can't recall them changing tonally either after some hours were on them. strange indeed how you experienced this.
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post #747 of 1075 Old 11-14-13, 06:08 PM Thread Starter
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Re: The Official $2,500 Speaker Evaluation / Home Audition Event

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K1LL3M wrote: View Post
Thanks Sonnie.

Did any of those speakers you tried it with have some form of a waveguide?

Just wondering if maybe that could have been the magic ingredient in the other positive comments read for it
Not that I can recall.


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interesting comments on the svs initially being "bright" Sonnie. I myself can't stand bright speakers either, and in no way thought the ultras were of such. not even from day one. for 2ch listening I don't add any rc or processing just strictly direct mode. I can't recall them changing tonally either after some hours were on them. strange indeed how you experienced this.
Pure Direct with everything we used... OPPO to Integrated Amp to speakers, other than the brief listen with the Denon 4520. Same speaker cables we have been using the entire time too.

I wonder sometimes if my ears change how they hear things. There was nothing abnormal about the weather during that time... fairly moderate temps.

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post #748 of 1075 Old 11-14-13, 06:19 PM
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Re: The Official $2,500 Speaker Evaluation / Home Audition Event

Hi, great thread, although admittedly have only read through it sporadically. I have a couple of questions regarding speaker placement. I noticed for optimal placement, in general, the distance between speakers is greater than the distance between listener and speaker. However, with speakers closer to the back wall, the two distances became more equivalent. Is this phenomena a general "rule of thumb"? Also, was the listening position always fixed and as such contributed to the disparity of the above mentioned ratios? Last, how were these speakers selected amongst the great many options available? Thanks, Garth
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post #749 of 1075 Old 11-14-13, 07:59 PM
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Re: The Official $2,500 Speaker Evaluation / Home Audition Event

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Sonnie wrote:
In all cases I am getting much better imaging, a nice wide soundstage and excellent depth when the speakers are a little wider apart than they are to the listener... the depth improves tremendously
In what playback format do you listen to music Sonnie? Do you only do 2.x stereo? I used to only do stereo, but PLIIx Music DSX with Wides, with the center at it's lowest PLIIx Music amplitude setting and surrounds pushed a little forward is definitely my preferred option. It takes a wide soundstage and makes it that much wider, with my mains at 30 degrees in a golden triangle and my wides at the front corners of the room at around 55 degrees. Pics attached. Have you ever tried wides?


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AudicRaver wrote:
You can definitely hear the difference, but if you activate the rolloff and leave it on for awhile so you are not hearing the contrast it is subtle and would not jump out at you in a situation where you are not looking for it.
I guess it just depends what you are sensitive to. I tend to be very sensitive about the top end - it's one of the first things I notice when I hear new speakers, and it tends to be the biggest contributor to whether I like or dislike a speaker. Also, if you guys did quick switching (which I understand wasn't the purpose of this test), I bet it would have stuck out like a sore thumb on both of the first two speakers.

That active filter in your test would drain some of the "real-ness" to the sound - less airy and clear. Even if they aren't sustained fundamental sounds above 10-15khz in the music, there are ques or fragments in the recording in that range that help trick our brain into accepting it as "real".
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post #750 of 1075 Old 11-14-13, 09:14 PM
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Re: The Official $2,500 Speaker Evaluation / Home Audition Event

Sorry for the off topic but is that an Atari in that rack? WOW. Its like a gamers museum there. OK back to the discussion
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In what playback format do you listen to music Sonnie? Do you only do 2.x stereo? I used to only do stereo, but PLIIx Music DSX with Wides, with the center at it's lowest PLIIx Music amplitude setting and surrounds pushed a little forward is definitely my preferred option. It takes a wide soundstage and makes it that much wider, with my mains at 30 degrees in a golden triangle and my wides at the front corners of the room at around 55 degrees. Pics attached. Have you ever tried wides?



I guess it just depends what you are sensitive to. I tend to be very sensitive about the top end - it's one of the first things I notice when I hear new speakers, and it tends to be the biggest contributor to whether I like or dislike a speaker. Also, if you guys did quick switching (which I understand wasn't the purpose of this test), I bet it would have stuck out like a sore thumb on both of the first two speakers.

That active filter in your test would drain some of the "real-ness" to the sound - less airy and clear. Even if they aren't sustained fundamental sounds above 10-15khz in the music, there are ques or fragments in the recording in that range that help trick our brain into accepting it as "real".
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