The Official $2,500 Speaker Evaluation / Home Audition Event - Page 92 - Home Theater Forum and Systems - HomeTheaterShack.com

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post #911 of 1075 Old 11-19-13, 08:58 PM
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Re: The Official $2,500 Speaker Evaluation / Home Audition Event

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sdurani wrote: View Post
I don't see why it would be "infinitely unmanageable". Suppose you expanded the listening test you just participated in so that it encompassed 50 loudspeakers and 300 listeners over the period of a couple years. At the end of it, you found that certain speakers consistently scored high with most listeners while other speakers repeatedly scored low with most listeners. Without naming brands and model numbers, you publish which qualities were consistently preferred and which were not. What was the "set of assumptions"?
All I was saying was: a study has to have assumptions and goals - be it a 1-weekend evaluation of a 10-year study. That is how you end up with meaningful results. The results then refer to the assumptions, have to, you cannot infer universal absolutes from finite data.

Edit: Also, I did not claim the studies to be of no value, they clearly were of value. But the results can be taken out of context, and can then be misleading.
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post #912 of 1075 Old 11-19-13, 09:05 PM
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Re: The Official $2,500 Speaker Evaluation / Home Audition Event

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It is not typical for a person to sit in front of one speaker.
As I mentioned previously, they only started testing that way after finding out that there were no differences in ranking when using single speaker vs 2 speakers vs 5 speakers.

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post #913 of 1075 Old 11-19-13, 09:09 PM
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Re: The Official $2,500 Speaker Evaluation / Home Audition Event

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All I was saying was: a study has to have assumptions and goals - be it a 1-weekend evaluation of a 10-year study.
Since they didn't know which qualities would be preferred (hence the reason for the testing), what were their assumptions?

Sanjay
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post #914 of 1075 Old 11-19-13, 09:33 PM
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The ESL's get here Thursday, I probably won't even get them opened up for a week or so... Who am I kidding, I am already starting to peak out the front window every time a delivery truck goes by. Assuming no problems or damage, will get right on it. Want to try different things in different rooms. By mid December is my goal, but no promises, maybe sooner. Then there is the long-term follow-up listening to make sure nothing important was missed. That could go on for years. Gotta be thorough.
I'm not gonna lie, this (along with the EP's) were the ones I was most looking forward to reading. I've loved panels every time I've heard them. A reasonably priced panel, sign me up! I should go and audition these myself too

I think about speakers for hours every day. I believe it is mental illness.
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post #915 of 1075 Old 11-19-13, 09:41 PM
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Re: The Official $2,500 Speaker Evaluation / Home Audition Event

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Since they didn't know which qualities would be preferred (hence the reason for the testing), what were their assumptions?
"Assumption 1: We will perform a variety of tests with different speaker types in different configurations in different rooms to determine trends in what kinds of speakers people tend to prefer."

They did not go for a random stroll through the woods looking for pretty frogs and end up reporting, "Hey, guess what we figured out about loudspeakers!"

Those assumptions can be, and often are, refined along the way. That is fine.

Back to my post about mixing speakers, my conclusion was simply: Based on a couple hours of reading (assumption) in a forum thread (assumption) of comments mostly by mixing engineers (assumption), it appears (assumption), according to my interpretation of those comments (assumption), that some (assumption) mix engineers prefer speakers with coloration of a certain kind to mix with because it points out to them certain sonic characteristics that are helpful to them that they have a harder time hearing with flat speakers.

Bottom line: I read something and made an interpretation of if. Take my conclusion out of context and it would be easy to make a misleading statement, like: Mix engineers prefer speakers with coloration. Not untrue within the context given, but very misleading outside of that context.
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post #916 of 1075 Old 11-19-13, 09:54 PM
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Re: The Official $2,500 Speaker Evaluation / Home Audition Event

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Another thing to keep an eye on if planning to have speakers close to the wall is the location of the bass reflex port. A rear port will sound REALLY boomy close to the wall. A front port gives a lot more flexibility (remember that any speaker will have increased bass by being close to the wall, it just gets a lot worse if there is a rear port).

Rear port designs seem to be most common. The Studio 60's have dual ports, so it is medium sensitive to wall placement.
My 'wall sensitivity' issue is a bit different.

I have the joy of the modern home 'media niche' so while I can place my speakers two feet in front of the back wall, the left and right speakers are only 5 inches from the side walls of the niche (though the front of the speakers are in front of the niche sidewalls a bit). Then there's the matter of the 16" 'stage' that everything sits onů

The B&W LCR6 front soundstage handles this less than perfect situation pretty well. Finding an upgrade for these speakers (outside of the B&W 805s) may prove challenging.

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post #917 of 1075 Old 11-19-13, 10:02 PM
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Re: The Official $2,500 Speaker Evaluation / Home Audition Event

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"Assumption 1: We will perform a variety of tests with different speaker types in different configurations in different rooms to determine trends in what kinds of speakers people tend to prefer."
An assumption is when you assume something (i.e., start from a premise). What would that assumption/premise have been going into the tests? Not like they knew ahead of time what qualities would be preferred (otherwise they wouldn't have wasted all those resources and time doing the tests).
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Bottom line: I read something and made an interpretation of if.
I likewise read research and described the findings here. They happen to be different from what you were saying, but I didn't think that posting an alternate viewpoint would be problematic.

Sanjay
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post #918 of 1075 Old 11-19-13, 11:25 PM
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Re: The Official $2,500 Speaker Evaluation / Home Audition Event

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My 'wall sensitivity' issue is a bit different.

I have the joy of the modern home 'media niche' so while I can place my speakers two feet in front of the back wall, the left and right speakers are only 5 inches from the side walls of the niche (though the front of the speakers are in front of the niche sidewalls a bit). Then there's the matter of the 16" 'stage' that everything sits onů

The B&W LCR6 front soundstage handles this less than perfect situation pretty well. Finding an upgrade for these speakers (outside of the B&W 805s) may prove challenging.
Yes, our "real-world" rooms can be challenging. The 16 inch high stage sounds like a BIG challenge.
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post #919 of 1075 Old 11-19-13, 11:35 PM
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Re: The Official $2,500 Speaker Evaluation / Home Audition Event

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I likewise read research and described the findings here. They happen to be different from what you were saying, but I didn't think that posting an alternate viewpoint would be problematic.
It is not.

I respectfully suggest that we have somehow kept missing each other's points - no big deal - and we should let the thread get back to its business. I DO appreciate your thoughtful posts, truly.

Cheers.
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post #920 of 1075 Old 11-20-13, 08:47 AM
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Re: The Official $2,500 Speaker Evaluation / Home Audition Event

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Sonnie wrote: View Post
If the test is to determine preferred qualities, they missed quite a few that would be what I would prefer.
Hi Sonnie,

Possible, but impossible to determine, since their tests and your comparisons...are incomparable!! It is entirely possible that you too would prefer speakers with the least amount of polar distortion, in your room, with your ears...but that is NOT under test in your comparisons. There are a great many more variables involved in yours.
Btw, polar response and spatial perception are related. I keep seeing thing stated here as if they aren't.

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Sonnie wrote: View Post
The reason I do speaker comparisons is to determine what speakers sound the best to me.
Best thing to do. That of course, was not what Harman's tests were about...and I agree with you on the positioning issue, which I argued against myself way back when. Clearly, you cannot plop a Maggie and a cone 'n dome ported box in the same corner positions and expect a reasonable stereophonic comparison, blind or otherwise.

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Sonnie wrote: View Post
We share that info with our readers, but it won't tell them what is best for them, although it might tell them that certain qualities are easier to obtain with speaker x over speaker y. That is why it is more useful.
Each has its own use, but unfortunately, I would guess 99.85% of readers will misinterpret both equally.
The Harman tests confirmed that the majority of listeners prefer less, not more, native (speaker itself) amplitude distortion...and found that the majority of listeners will prefer less polar response distortion from monopoles in a wider variety of rooms....blind. That's it.
It does NOT mean that the listener will prefer this type of speaker, in their room, sighted.
Your comparison may well reflect this reality, though far more measurements would be required.
Folks really, really should audition speakers themselves, preferably in their own rooms, but that, is also unfortunately, not realistic.

I'll finish with this, my opinion: speakers with smoother polars, tend to sound more consistent, in a wider variety of rooms. The opposite being true, speakers with more erratic polars sounding great in one room, terrible in another, i.e. more variability.
So it's not that one sounds "better" than the other (they don't), it's that one more consistent sound qualities, room to room.
Well, except when the room has been turned into an iso ward...which is another matter entirely..

cheers
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