The Official $2,500 Speaker Evaluation / Home Audition Event - Page 96 - Home Theater Forum and Systems - HomeTheaterShack.com

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post #951 of 1075 Old 11-20-13, 08:54 PM
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Re: The Official $2,500 Speaker Evaluation / Home Audition Event

One thing I am always interested in is how the design of a speaker effects its sound. For example, Vandersteen likes to talk up their first order cross-overs like it is the only way to go. After listening to one Vandersteen model that I didn't care for I am not sure if first order cross-overs are good or not. I also tend to notice a certain boominess with bass-reflex designs. Perhaps with the right box design this is not an issue, but I think in general it is a negative trade-off of the bass-reflex model. So I am curious about other designs like transmission line, aperiodic, open-baffle, horn, etc. Of course, one often trades for different qualities rather than getting an across the board improvement. The new Wharfdale Jade5 is an aperiodic design and thus really interests me. I often wonder why cross-overs are placed in 2k-3k region where human hearing is so sensitive. Why are there not more 3 way designs using say a 3" midrange. A good 3" midrange could cover from 150Hz to 4k or so. This would move the cross-over to the tweeter higher which seems like a good thing to me. It would also allow for a 10" driver on the bottom to hit hard. Perhaps 3 way integration is just too hard. But in a way most speakers need a subwoofer creating a 3-way design anyway, but with time alignment issues. I have an experimental open-baffle at home with a 15" pro-audio woofer on an 18" baffle. It is the most natural bass that I have heard. It would not be for everybody though as it does not provide that pound you in the chest kick drum. But my sub-amp is only 10 watts, lol. I see a lot of designs lately with tweeter wave guides. Of all of these that I have heard it seems to make the sound brighter to my ears and not better. There is also baffle step correction where the right amount depends upon the distance to the front wall and maybe the room size. Its too bad this isn't left out of speakers all together and adjusted digitally via some form of room correction. I can't help but feel that someday digital cross-overs will be the way to go. It is also a little surprising to me that more speakers don't try harder to reduce baffle diffraction, like say the Anthony Gallo Orbs or more conservatively like the Diapason Karis. So many variables, but it would be nice to see some of these areas explored.
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post #952 of 1075 Old 11-20-13, 08:57 PM
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Re: The Official $2,500 Speaker Evaluation / Home Audition Event

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Can I say thank you for doing this.
You certainly can, but they would prefer you show appreciation in a more tangible way (read: monetarily).

-Jim

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post #953 of 1075 Old 11-20-13, 09:48 PM
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Sounds like the community here is begging for a BBQ shootout!
Some one has to invite Bobby Flay
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post #954 of 1075 Old 11-20-13, 09:52 PM
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Re: The Official $2,500 Speaker Evaluation / Home Audition Event

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You certainly can, but they would prefer you show appreciation in a more tangible way (read: monetarily).
Or, invite us all out to Jim's place as I hear he puts on a great party...
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post #955 of 1075 Old 11-21-13, 12:01 AM
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Re: The Official $2,500 Speaker Evaluation / Home Audition Event

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Sounds like the community here is begging for a BBQ shootout!
I'd be more than happy to ship some of my secret stuff to the evaluation staff with my deepest appreciation for this has been a fun and informative ride.
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post #956 of 1075 Old 11-21-13, 01:33 AM
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Thank you to all who put in the time and effort for the $2,500 speaker evaluation. This has been a very in depth and lengthy read but enjoyable. Having personally listened to a few Different lines of the Paradigm speakers I was confident they would do well. At some point when money allows I'll be putting together a two channel system and Paradigm is on my short list. I'd really like to find some ARX A5's and give them a listen before pulling the trigger but I have some time. Thanks again HTS!
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post #957 of 1075 Old 11-21-13, 02:41 AM
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Re: The Official $2,500 Speaker Evaluation / Home Audition Event

Greenster & needspeed52 & all else who have said thanks: your appreciation is appreciated, and you are welcome.

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needspeed52 wrote: View Post
It is so refreshing to hear folks actual impressions of what they are hearing without a thousand different numbers to explain why they are hearing what they are. I realize numbers are important to make a decision to even audition a speaker, but hands on listening is what compels me to to persue a particular brand or model of speaker.
I am particularly fascinated by the relationships between what we measure and what we hear. the objective and subjective, but of course it has to be kept interesting and tell a story that informs, too. I like a healthy balance of the two, and try to remember that most of us have a boring detail threshold that has to be watched our for.

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This thread has changed my thinking about adding a front stage to my room. I really like the look but am now thinking about eliminating it because it limites what you can do with the room too much. Thanks again for this event.
They can look nice and add to the theater vibe, that is for sure. Even with a room dedicated to cinema viewing, they put tower mains at a boosted height, which can make a little or a big difference in their sound. But for music listening, that difference is likely to stand out more. The stage has constantly been in the way for us. Can't think of a single time one of us has said, "Sure is a good thing we have this stage here."

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JeffB wrote: View Post
One thing I am always interested in is how the design of a speaker effects its sound. For example, Vandersteen likes to talk up their first order cross-overs like it is the only way to go. After listening to one Vandersteen model that I didn't care for I am not sure if first order cross-overs are good or not. I also tend to notice a certain boominess with bass-reflex designs. Perhaps with the right box design this is not an issue, but I think in general it is a negative trade-off of the bass-reflex model. So I am curious about other designs like transmission line, aperiodic, open-baffle, horn, etc. Of course, one often trades for different qualities rather than getting an across the board improvement. The new Wharfdale Jade5 is an aperiodic design and thus really interests me. I often wonder why cross-overs are placed in 2k-3k region where human hearing is so sensitive. Why are there not more 3 way designs using say a 3" midrange. A good 3" midrange could cover from 150Hz to 4k or so. This would move the cross-over to the tweeter higher which seems like a good thing to me. It would also allow for a 10" driver on the bottom to hit hard. Perhaps 3 way integration is just too hard. But in a way most speakers need a subwoofer creating a 3-way design anyway, but with time alignment issues. I have an experimental open-baffle at home with a 15" pro-audio woofer on an 18" baffle. It is the most natural bass that I have heard. It would not be for everybody though as it does not provide that pound you in the chest kick drum. But my sub-amp is only 10 watts, lol. I see a lot of designs lately with tweeter wave guides. Of all of these that I have heard it seems to make the sound brighter to my ears and not better. There is also baffle step correction where the right amount depends upon the distance to the front wall and maybe the room size. Its too bad this isn't left out of speakers all together and adjusted digitally via some form of room correction. I can't help but feel that someday digital cross-overs will be the way to go. It is also a little surprising to me that more speakers don't try harder to reduce baffle diffraction, like say the Anthony Gallo Orbs or more conservatively like the Diapason Karis. So many variables, but it would be nice to see some of these areas explored.
Quite a summary of design tradeoffs and issues. Makes you wonder how a design ever gets done with so many decisions to be made. We have gotten into some of the parameters that directly affect speaker placement, like monopole vs. dipole, and front vs. rear ports. A number of these variables affect now difficult or easy it can be to find a speaker's ideal placement for best sound, or placement flexibility and sensitivity, and related LP position flexibility. A lot of these variables are inner details that will be difficult to evaluate directly, but can be pointed out and discussed in how they seem to be affecting the speaker's sound and flexibility. We are interested in these details, too, and will delve into them as we find ways to accurately report more about them.

==============

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post #958 of 1075 Old 11-21-13, 07:15 AM
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Re: The Official $2,500 Speaker Evaluation / Home Audition Event

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moparz10 wrote: View Post
i guess this means my bbq sauce could be perceived as tasting better than one made in tha south
Probably not.😀
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post #959 of 1075 Old 11-21-13, 03:16 PM
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Re: The Official $2,500 Speaker Evaluation / Home Audition Event

Looking at the group photo of you guys my first thought was “Hey, that’s Mark Seaton!”. So not only do you guys get to listen to great music with an array of very good speakers but you’ve got the godfather of bass there to setup his Catalyst system – you lucky dogs you! I can’t wait to read your impressions of that setup.

I have not heard any of these speakers in person but I was surprised by the impressive performance by the Dynaudio’s just based on the name recognition of its competitors. I haven’t been following every post (my apologies if this has been answered) but has Dynaudio tested those speakers when you sent them back to make sure the woofers were not damaged before your audition? Or were those speakers purchased outright? I am especially interested in them due to their lack of brightness; that is one area that I seem to be especially sensitive to, similar to Wayne it seems.

I’ve kept an eye on Paradigm over the years due to their rabid following and I’m glad they were entered into the event. Whenever I finally get a new home for my HT they will be on my short list along with the Dyna’s (although the more of these audition threads I read the longer that list is getting!).

Thanks again for all you have invested (both time and money) and I look forward to reading more of these in-depth reviews.
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post #960 of 1075 Old 11-21-13, 10:18 PM
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Re: The Official $2,500 Speaker Evaluation / Home Audition Event

Quote:
Infrasonic wrote: View Post
Looking at the group photo of you guys my first thought was “Hey, that’s Mark Seaton!”. So not only do you guys get to listen to great music with an array of very good speakers but you’ve got the godfather of bass there to setup his Catalyst system – you lucky dogs you! I can’t wait to read your impressions of that setup.
Working on them as we speak. He really was a wizard working with the subs.

Quote:
...has Dynaudio tested those speakers when you sent them back to make sure the woofers were not damaged before your audition?
They were a review pair that had been used at least once before. Not sure what testing has been done on them.

Quote:
I am especially interested in them due to their lack of brightness; that is one area that I seem to be especially sensitive to, similar to Wayne it seems.
Their highs were exactly right for me, in that room anyway, almost dreamy smooth. Leonard and Joe said similar things, as I recall.

The HTD Level Three Towers I am reviewing right now in my home are more like the Paradigms in brightness the way I have them set up, plenty hot but are not bothersome. The room is deader and the speakers are closer. Many factors.

I definitely have a fairly hard threshold where my ears say "too bright" and for anyone who has a similar threshold, I agree that the Dynaudios would be worth looking at - having many other attractive qualities too.

Quote:
Thanks again for all you have invested (both time and money) and I look forward to reading more of these in-depth reviews.
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