The Official $3,000 Speaker Evaluation / Home Audition Event - Page 23 - Home Theater Forum and Systems - HomeTheaterShack.com

Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #221 of 267 Old 03-13-14, 10:21 AM
HTS Hillbilly
HTS Administrator
 
Sonnie's Avatar
I'm a redneck!
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: L.A. (Lower Alabama)
Posts: 22,554
My System
Re: The Official $3,000 Speaker Evaluation / Home Audition Event

Bryan... Wayne can probably better answer this, but I think it is a matter of the speakers and possibly the setup. There is no doubt the ML's sound better with Audyssey Music (no Dynamic EQ), than without it (IMO). I would not say overly dramatic, but a more refined and detailed, yet airy soundstage... and really amazing lifelike imaging. The longer I have listened to it this way, the more I like it, to a point that when I now switch it back to Pure Audio, I can tell it ain't right... almost a boxy sound that I did not notice at first... I lose some of the openness and clarity (hoping those are the right terms)... immediately focus draws inward too much, if that makes sense. It is something we noticed when A/B'ing some speakers... how the bass and midbass can seem good and even (and where it is supposed to be), and then get all boxed up. I think you can look at the response measurements and see why this happens, and to me it is anything but natural (IMO). It would be better if you could just hear it for yourself. None the less... I have not heard anything better, anywhere... period, including all the audio shows I have been to. Are they worth $10,000... that is a tough call. For those where money is no object, probably so. While I love the sound, I could be satisfied with less... and any number of the much lesser expensive speakers would probably do me just fine... and still get me pretty close, although probably not breathtaking like the Montis. If they are 10 of 10... and I can get 7-8 of 10, I think I am a happy listener for hours on end. They just kind of take you over the edge, so to speak. The music I listen to may also have something to do with it too.

I did NOT hear any of the other speakers with Audyssey, only without, so I cannot speak to the differences of those, and if any of them may have sounded better with Audyssey. However, the ML's are no doubt a completely different design, not only dipole, but electrostatic as well, so this could have been the main contributor to the difference.

Cedar Creek Cinema

PremierHomeAudio: Denon, Marantz, Onkyo, Yamaha, Sony, Pioneer, Def Tech and more. Shoot me a PM!
Sonnie is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #222 of 267 Old 03-13-14, 10:55 AM
Senior Shackster
Bryan
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Woods Cross, Utah
Posts: 831
Re: The Official $3,000 Speaker Evaluation / Home Audition Event

Thanks for commenting, Sonnie. There are a handful of speakers on my audition list, and fortunately my budget allows me to have the ML Electromotion ESL on that list. The Phase Tech is also on my audition-in-my-home list (even though I've heard it elsewhere, or actually because I've heard it elsewhere. I share Joe's opinion on the airiness and openness of vocals on that speaker).

Might have to have one of these HTS-style comparisons of my own here soon.
bkeeler10 is offline  
post #223 of 267 Old 03-13-14, 06:13 PM Thread Starter
HTS Moderator
Reviewer
 
AudiocRaver's Avatar
Wayne Myers
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Lincoln, NE
Posts: 4,565
Re: The Official $3,000 Speaker Evaluation / Home Audition Event

Quote:
bkeeler10 wrote: View Post
This talk of the soundstage on a couple of seemingly excellent imagers being degraded a bit by Audyssey has me wondering why. I don't recall Wayne mentioning such a thing in his review of the Montis even though its imaging was highly praised. Is there enough variability in MultEQ that another pass on the PSB or Axiom would have sounded significantly different? Are speakers very sensitive to toe in angle more likely to get messed up by Audyssey or be exceedingly sensitive to placement of the Audyssey mic?
Excellent questions, and I wish we knew more of the answers. I was thinking of the Montis when I wrote those remarks about the PSB Imagine T2. We never felt that the Montis suffered from the use of Audyssey MultEQ. But we are constantly learning here. There seem to be tendencies.
  • With Audyssey MultEQ, poor, medium, and pretty-good soundstages and imaging are improved somewhat by improved phase / time alignment and frequency response matching.
  • With Audyssey MultEQ, the best examples of soundstage and imaging may improve a little, not at all, or may actually suffer some. It is difficult to predict which it will be.
  • Even the best soundstage / imaging examples remain intact with sparingly applied parametric EQ.
  • If there is much attenuation of high frequencies due to the off-axis listening angle, soundstage / imaging are improved by having them boosted closer to flat.
Quote:
It also reinforces to me the value of an auto EQ system that allows the user to restrict the ranges of frequencies it is allowed to perform EQ on, such as Anthem's ARC. Presumably if you had been able to stop the correction at say 200 Hz it would have tightened up the bass issues but left frequencies most important for imaging largely alone. Pure conjecture on my part - just thinking out loud here.
Sounds perfectly logical, would be another possibility to investigate.
AudiocRaver is offline  
post #224 of 267 Old 03-13-14, 06:53 PM
Senior Shackster
The Shark
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Texas
Posts: 106
My System
Re: The Official $3,000 Speaker Evaluation / Home Audition Event

Quote:
prerich wrote: View Post
klipsch refused to participate in other challenges if I'm not mistaken.

Sent from my iPad using HTShack
That's disappointing. I'm glad the RF-62 II's were featured in the $1000 evaluation (I'm an owner). Nonetheless, this was a great evaluation. I've been interested in how the Axioms performed compared to the competition, so that was helpful.
Tom Riddle is offline  
post #225 of 267 Old 03-13-14, 07:46 PM Thread Starter
HTS Moderator
Reviewer
 
AudiocRaver's Avatar
Wayne Myers
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Lincoln, NE
Posts: 4,565
Re: The Official $3,000 Speaker Evaluation / Home Audition Event

Quote:
Sonnie wrote: View Post
Bryan... Wayne can probably better answer this, but I think it is a matter of the speakers and possibly the setup. There is no doubt the ML's sound better with Audyssey Music (no Dynamic EQ), than without it (IMO). I would not say overly dramatic, but a more refined and detailed, yet airy soundstage... and really amazing lifelike imaging. The longer I have listened to it this way, the more I like it, to a point that when I now switch it back to Pure Audio, I can tell it ain't right... almost a boxy sound that I did not notice at first... I lose some of the openness and clarity (hoping those are the right terms)... immediately focus draws inward too much, if that makes sense. It is something we noticed when A/B'ing some speakers... how the bass and midbass can seem good and even (and where it is supposed to be), and then get all boxed up. I think you can look at the response measurements and see why this happens, and to me it is anything but natural (IMO). It would be better if you could just hear it for yourself. None the less... I have not heard anything better, anywhere... period, including all the audio shows I have been to. Are they worth $10,000... that is a tough call. For those where money is no object, probably so. While I love the sound, I could be satisfied with less... and any number of the much lesser expensive speakers would probably do me just fine... and still get me pretty close, although probably not breathtaking like the Montis. If they are 10 of 10... and I can get 7-8 of 10, I think I am a happy listener for hours on end. They just kind of take you over the edge, so to speak. The music I listen to may also have something to do with it too.

I did NOT hear any of the other speakers with Audyssey, only without, so I cannot speak to the differences of those, and if any of them may have sounded better with Audyssey. However, the ML's are no doubt a completely different design, not only dipole, but electrostatic as well, so this could have been the main contributor to the difference.
I concur with Sonnie's thoughts. I would definitely normally elect to listen to the Montis in Sonnie's room with MultEQ on. There was no downside whatsoever that I ever heard.
AudiocRaver is offline  
post #226 of 267 Old 03-14-14, 07:56 PM
HTS Senior Moderator
HTS Reviewer
 
tesseract's Avatar
2 channel view
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Lincoln, NE
Posts: 3,669
My System
Quote:
AudiocRaver wrote: View Post

Good point. At my first carved in space soundstage witnessing at RMAF last October, I might have doubted my own ears except Dennis (Tesseract) was right beside me and had the same reaction. But there have been occasions like that where I was knocked out by it and others have not. So a factor is appreciation and being attuned to it.

Also, fine equipment does not a fine soundstage make. At RMAF there were many rooms full of ridiculously expensive equipment that had mediocre soundstages. There was only one carved in space soundstage at the whole event that I heard, one of the two Wilson Alexia setups. Even the main Wilson room only gave a pretty good soundstage in comparison. There are a lot of factors.
That wonderful tonal balance, soundstage and imaging were from an analog rig. Amazing what can be had from LP's and proper setup!

"I left in love, in laughter, and in truth and wherever truth, love and laughter abide, I am there in spirit." - Bill Hicks
tesseract is offline  
post #227 of 267 Old 03-14-14, 08:11 PM
HTS Senior Moderator
HTS Reviewer
 
tesseract's Avatar
2 channel view
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Lincoln, NE
Posts: 3,669
My System
Quote:
bkeeler10 wrote: View Post
Yes a pair of subs is already in the budget, as are speakers for 7.1 and a receiver and a blu ray player and projector. But if the speakers could save me some money that would be awesome.

I am fortunate to have enough connections in the audio world that I can get pretty good pricing on lots of stuff. So my budget allows for speakers that MSRP in the low $2000 range, but I wouldn't be paying that much. That's one disadvantage with Arx (or any ID company) for me only -- I don't get a deal on them.
Bryan, the ID business model is bare bones, anyone purchasing from that model is already saving a bunch. Even you, my friend. A5 sounds like a bargain, add A2 center, A2 surrounds, you are well within budget and punching way above weight class.

"I left in love, in laughter, and in truth and wherever truth, love and laughter abide, I am there in spirit." - Bill Hicks
tesseract is offline  
post #228 of 267 Old 03-14-14, 08:44 PM Thread Starter
HTS Moderator
Reviewer
 
AudiocRaver's Avatar
Wayne Myers
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Lincoln, NE
Posts: 4,565
Re: The Official $3,000 Speaker Evaluation / Home Audition Event

The Tannoy Precision 6.4 review has been posted. Here is a direct link to it.

Leonard's and Joe's comments will follow shortly for the Tannoy and Polk reviews.

Summary comments will be posted this weekend. Thanks to all for your patience.
AudiocRaver is offline  
post #229 of 267 Old 03-14-14, 09:07 PM Thread Starter
HTS Moderator
Reviewer
 
AudiocRaver's Avatar
Wayne Myers
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Lincoln, NE
Posts: 4,565
Re: The Official $3,000 Speaker Evaluation / Home Audition Event

Joe's comments are all in, so they have been posted for the Polk and Tannoy reviews.

I really appreciate all the time Joe and Leonard put into preparing their comments. As I have said, they are both really busy guys.
AudiocRaver is offline  
post #230 of 267 Old 03-14-14, 10:20 PM
Senior Shackster
Bryan
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Woods Cross, Utah
Posts: 831
Quote:
tesseract wrote: View Post

Bryan, the ID business model is bare bones, anyone purchasing from that model is already saving a bunch. Even you, my friend. A5 sounds like a bargain, add A2 center, A2 surrounds, you are well within budget and punching way above weight class.
I don't disagree at all. That and the reputation of Arx means I will probably audition them even though I can go more than twice as high. And I won't be overly surprised if I end up liking them best or deciding that 95% of the performance for half the price is the way to go.
bkeeler10 is offline  
Reply

Bookmarks

Tags
$3 , 000 , audition , evaluation , event , home , official , speaker

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now




PLEASE COMPLETE ALL REQUIRED FIELDS BELOW... THANKS!

REQUIRED FIELDS ON THIS PAGE
YOU MUST COMPLETE ALL OF THESE

Username
Password
Confirm Password
Email Address
Confirm Email Address
Random Question
Random Question #2




User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
PLEASE READ BELOW PRIOR TO ENTERING AN EMAIL ADDRESS!

ATTENTION!

YOU MUST ACTIVATE YOUR ACCOUNT!

Activation requires you reply to an email we will send you after you register... if you do not reply to this email, you will not be able to view certain areas of the forum or certain images... nor will you be able download software.

AN INVALID EMAIL ADDRESS WILL CAUSE YOUR ACCOUNT TO BE DELETED!

See our banned email list here: Banned Email List

We DO NOT respond to spamcop, boxtrapper and spamblocker emails... please add @hometheatershack DOT com to your whitelist prior to registering or you will get nowhere on your registration.


Email Address:
OR

Log-in









Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.



Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page



Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML is not allowed!
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off

 


For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome