Buy Calibrated or not? - Page 4 - Home Theater Forum and Systems -

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post #31 of 32 Old 11-07-11, 09:41 AM
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Re: Buy Calibrated or not?

Wayne A. Pflughaupt wrote: View Post
The price of the equipment has no bearing on any problems configuring or getting it to work with REW. We’ve had plenty of people come through here with high-priced gear that they couldn’t get to work.
Wayne A. Pflughaupt wrote: View Post
The beauty of REW is that it doesn’t require expensive equipment. No one has offered any proof that they got better results using high-priced sound cards and mics.

I won’t spend much time on this as is simply doesn’t justify it.

So now it is asserted that someone has necessarily associated ‘quality’ with price – as opposed to the necessary functional features such as dual channel, balanced inputs, phantom power and linear operation.

And actual measured performance of devices such as the Presonus Audiobox USB and the Duran Audio Axys den0monstrating the REAL differences in magnitude and phase linearity and a Significant different in unit noise floors certainly (sic) constitute “No one (offering) any proof that they got better results”. Of course, unlike the remainder of the quoted source, we on the other hand are quite able ’to get this equipment to work’! Not only that , but the Axys is indeed one of the standards in precision measurement and analysis – on ALL measurement platforms!

It is interesting to listen to some assert the necessity to buy a calibrated mic, yet they at the same time assert that the quality of the mic pre-amp has nothing to do with the accuracy and precision of the measurement. Unfortunately, they work together. Both require accuracy and precision necessary to encompass the desired use of the software. And if one seeks to measure and act on elements that are outside of the accuracy of the various IO devices, the results will not be accurate.

Thus as it has become rather commonplace lately on the forum to insist that one must EQ a sub in the lowest 5-20 Hz passband, then one must have measurement hardware capable of accurately measuring such data.

But, like it or not, the scope of one’s intended use does impact what hardware one employs. As there are various ranges in accuracy and precision. And simply obtaining a calibrated microphone is not sufficient to overcome issues of pre-amps whose low end is deliberately attenuated so as to protect against the passage of DC or units which lack sufficient phase linearity or which exhibit high noise levels that may impede measurements requiring such sensitivity.

SAC wrote: View Post
I know folks seem to think that since they are 'only looking at the LF extreme' that they do not need to invest in decent equipment, but the fact is, below 30 Hz, ANY results you get are suspect unless you invest in a good pre-amp and a good mic as the phase and accuracy of the frequency response below ~30 Hz WILL be inaccurate. You are simply reaching into a critical response region whereupon, you get what you pay for. There is no free lunch.

I will also add that it is, in my opinion, truly a shame that folks assemble the test equipment sufficient to actually measure, analyze and fully treat a room, and quite just after the ONLY EQ a sub, which is considered a pre-requisite to actually tuning a room, where the specular behavior above the modal region actually determines the imaging, localization, tonality and intelligibility of the speaker-room interaction!
My suggestion, if you are interested in examining either the lowest octave or two and a full range response, do a bit of research and at least buy a decent 2 channel pre-amp and mic. If not, you can feel secure in the knowledge that you tried, but don't believe that you actually achieved the degree of success that you might have had the measured response been more accurate. ..
The fact remains that there are several ranges of equipment capability.

That which does fine for Most of what some may desire to do, but which does not have the accuracy necessary to do what many on the forum have asserted must be done (such as those repeatedly demanding the EQing subs to 5 Hz!!!)

And there is equipment capable of affording a variety of advantages in terms of either/or both low frequency and high frequency extension or noise floor levels – depending upon ones use.

Thus, such abilities are defined in terms of equipment features and specs.

But if one wants to try to reframe this as a straw man debate over price, be my guest. But if one does find such gear with said performance levels for less, please post such information along with independently verified specs.

And has been previously stated many times, please be sure to evaluate the scope of your intended goals and do your due diligence to insure that the hardware that you use as your front end is capable to support the full scope of your desired use – and let THAT be the criterion that you use to determine which gear is most appropriate for your intended use.

And yes, it would be useful if a dedicated thread were available strictly for posting various compatible ensembles as well as actual measured specs of the various pieces of gear in order to help facilitate decisions regarding matching actual specs to intended use.
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post #32 of 32 Old 11-17-11, 02:25 PM
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Re: Buy Calibrated or not?

John... we would be happy to discuss your ideas if you want to shoot me a PM.

As far as the links on the Downloads Page... I have added several links there on that posts that should help. It definitely sounds reasonable enough that they should be there. For the REW page that is linked from the icon up top... at the top of that page are several links, including downloads, forum and help links. At the top we have REW Downloads linked from the Quick Links menu... and on the home page we have a link on the left hand side under the "Site Navigation" menu that takes you to the downloads area. We haven't had many complaints about people being able to find it... it is pretty much all over the place. HOWEVER... we are always open to suggestions. They are harder to find deep within threads like this though... where the right folks may or may not see/read it. Our Forum Help | Suggestions forum was created specifically for this. Believe me... we would much rather have members offering suggestions rather than learning later somewhere deep in a thread they are complaining... no offense.

SAC wrote: View Post
I won’t spend much time on this as is simply doesn’t justify it.
Promises promises... yet impossible to accomplish.

KalaniP wrote: View Post
Please understand that I appreciate your obvious knowledge and deep understanding of the subject matter, but the near-constant negativity and acerbic tone does grate from time to time. It makes it harder to appreciate the valuable knowledge that you are freely imparting.
Amen! And why is it that I am hearing this from fifty-eleven members? Some of that knowledge needs to be used on communication and people skills.

SAC... we are all about wanting and desiring to provide good information. If you have an issue with something being recommended, come to the source rather than constantly beating members up over and over and over about it. Communicate directly with us if you wanna help, cause no one... and I mean no one wants to keep reading all your condescending whining about it over and over and over.

Why don't we start a thread on updating the FAQ and recommended equipment if it is needed.

In the meantime... I think this thread has used up its usefullness on the OP's topic and needs to be closed.

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