MiniDSP UMIK-1 Microphone - Page 47 - Home Theater Forum and Systems - HomeTheaterShack.com

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post #461 of 887 Old 04-04-13, 04:20 AM
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Re: MiniDSP UMIK-1 Microphone

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sachn wrote: View Post
This is the comparison plot for SN 7000370, looks similar to monomers. The files surely have difference. Is there really an issue ? Or is it that the new file is better than the old one ?
At a guess i would say the old one, as a poster has said it corresponds with his EMM-6 measurements.

I thought it was only the bottom end not from 9400-1000hz?

As paying customers you require progress reports. In all honesty how can you trust your measurements when nothing is coming through.

Last edited by Phillips; 04-04-13 at 07:56 PM.
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post #462 of 887 Old 04-04-13, 10:12 AM
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Re: MiniDSP UMIK-1 Microphone

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...In all honesty how can you trust your measurements when nothing is coming through.
Well, you are right and I don't blindly trust any of these calibration files. I am fortunate in that I do have my EMM-6 to compare against. As long as the two mic responses in REW (using their respective calibration files) do not diverge by more than a dB then I guess I'll have to trust the file is correct. Since the 'old' calibration file does this, I will have to go with it as being the 'correct' file and say something went horribly wrong in the algorithm during the recalculation of the values below 1000Hz in the 'new' file.

What's odd is that the last time they released a bogus file (those very first files they released on the second batch mics) the bad values started at 802Hz (and below) but this time around it appears to be beginning at 990Hz... so are they just randomly changing calibration reference points with each iteration? Also both times the error was soooo obvious its shocked me that someone either at miniDSP or their mic supplier, where these files are being generated, didn't pick up on how crazy it looked but instead just went ahead and released the files without first trying to verify a single one of them. Its almost as if no human sees these new files until a UMIK owner downloads them. Apparently no one bothers to even just look at a graph of the files before releasing the links to them on the miniDSP website. Does not speak well for the mic supplier but also reflects poorly upon miniDSP... I'm just not sure they realize the kind of serious damage it does to their reputation as a quality supplier of product.

This is the kind of thing that will spill over onto all their other product offerings as these problems become identified with miniDSP and not the mic supplier, (the mic manufacturer is anonymous and doesn't need to worry about establishing a reputation with the buying public... in fact it wouldn't surprise me if it isn't the exact same mic facility that produces the EMM-6). It's miniDSP's reputation that's on the line and suffering because of these series of calibration file boondoggles and if it were me, I'd be beating up on the mic manufacturer and literally checking up on them daily trying to get this situation fix correctly once and or all ASAP instead of letting it linger on for week after week and turning into months (yes, it's been 2 months now since the second batch of UMIKs started shipping out)... they've apparently sold well over 300 of these second batch UMIKs so far.

I'm actually surprised anyone is still purchasing these things... apparently they are either not aware of all the bogus data in the calibration files or don't care.

Last edited by monomer; 04-07-13 at 02:17 PM.
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post #463 of 887 Old 04-04-13, 03:30 PM
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Re: MiniDSP UMIK-1 Microphone

Today is a public holiday in Hong Kong which is likely to delay replies from MiniDSP, and I imagine they will need to have more discussion with the supplier to understand what has happened this time - unfortunately the holiday in China is 3 days, April 4th - 6th (Qing Ming Jie, meaning Chinese Memorial Day/Tomb Sweeping Day/All Souls Day).
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post #464 of 887 Old 04-04-13, 03:56 PM
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Re: MiniDSP UMIK-1 Microphone

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JohnM wrote: View Post
Today is a public holiday in Hong Kong which is likely to delay replies from MiniDSP, and I imagine they will need to have more discussion with the supplier to understand what has happened this time - unfortunately the holiday in China is 3 days, April 4th - 6th (Qing Ming Jie, meaning Chinese Memorial Day/Tomb Sweeping Day/All Souls Day).
Nutz! I just sent them an email yesterday about this in case they've not been looking at the thread in their own UMIK help forum. I've waited this long for below 20Hz calibration data from them I can surely wait another week... after all, what other choice do I have? JohnM, thanks for that heads up. I realize in the end it does all boil down to getting the manufacturer/supplier to make it a priority... sigh. I'm sure its an easy fix, they just need to get someone to do it.

Hey JohnM, as long as I've got you here, any idea what's up with the sensitivity factor they are using in those calibration files? Those factors are obviously wrong but I understand you've been in discussion trying to determine where the 'disconnect' may lay (software issue or some glitch on the manufacturer's side of things)... care to share any of that info with us UMIK owners?

Last edited by monomer; 04-04-13 at 04:05 PM.
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post #465 of 887 Old 04-04-13, 05:40 PM
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Re: MiniDSP UMIK-1 Microphone

I am sure that MiniDSP are looking into this but not communicating that well.

I think that the communication is the key, which can make all the difference.
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post #466 of 887 Old 04-04-13, 07:45 PM
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Re: MiniDSP UMIK-1 Microphone

Waiting for my new UMIK-1 mic to arrive, all I can say is THANK YOU monomer for taking the time and effort to provide clear feedback, and do only your best to reach solutions for everyone here.

You said it all, can't add anything to your last post. It's just the perfect situation synthesis.
I'm following your particpation in all related forums, and kindly ask you not to give up on this struggle!

Perhaps on the THIRD time they try to make a correct calibration file... finally we're going to get the promised results?


Regards.
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post #467 of 887 Old 04-05-13, 04:28 AM
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Quote:
Phillips wrote: View Post

At a guess i would say the old one, as a poster has said it corresponds with his EMM-6 measurements.

I thought it was only the bottom end not from 9400-1000hz?

As paying customers you require progress reports. In all honesty how can you trust your measurements when nothing is coming through.
Thanks Phillips for the reply.

I have a question on the REW's SPL using UMIK-1
The REW's SPL meter reads 65 dB and around 53 dBFS on Win7 64 bit laptop in my queit room, playing nothing. The Input volume is set to 100 %. I am using HDMI for output. I've read in some posts that UMIK-1 is quite sensitive and can measure upto 130 dB. Does that mean that the SPL would always be measured high since the mic can measure very high SPL. Why is the SPL reading in a quiet room so high? For non-USB mics one can calibrate REW's SPL with, say RS SPL meter. However for UMIK-1 there's no way to be sure on the SPL reading. Its only the cal. file? I am confused on the exact SPL reading that is displayed on the REW SPL meter. This will also be reflected on the FR graphs.
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post #468 of 887 Old 04-06-13, 08:40 PM
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Re: MiniDSP UMIK-1 Microphone

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sachn wrote: View Post
Thanks Phillips for the reply.

I have a question on the REW's SPL using UMIK-1
The REW's SPL meter reads 65 dB and around 53 dBFS on Win7 64 bit laptop in my queit room, playing nothing. The Input volume is set to 100 %. I am using HDMI for output. I've read in some posts that UMIK-1 is quite sensitive and can measure upto 130 dB. Does that mean that the SPL would always be measured high since the mic can measure very high SPL. Why is the SPL reading in a quiet room so high? For non-USB mics one can calibrate REW's SPL with, say RS SPL meter. However for UMIK-1 there's no way to be sure on the SPL reading. Its only the cal. file? I am confused on the exact SPL reading that is displayed on the REW SPL meter. This will also be reflected on the FR graphs.
I think i red that this was getting looked at for the next version of REW?

Can you get access to a SPL meter to check the SPL, you can adjust manually in REW?
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post #469 of 887 Old 04-07-13, 01:06 PM
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Re: MiniDSP UMIK-1 Microphone

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snowmanick wrote: View Post
Interesting. I just downloaded the 10hz cal file, and from 20hz and up it is exactly the same for me (7000508). My sens factor is still a bit high compared to my SPL meter with the HTS correction values (by about 3db), but it looks to be pretty consistently 3db different, so it is an easy fix on my end.

Did you double/triple check that you are looking at the same S/N? I can't tell you how many times I've transposed a digit or fat fingered a number.

If not, it'll be interesting to see what MiniDSP's response is. Especially since you have confirmed the the old cal file versus your EMM-6.
Hey Nick, I had some time today and decided to graph your UMIK's response. Without careful examination I had just assumed it was correctly done until I actually started looking at the below 20Hz data just now... Looking at the graph I'm convinced something is not right. Imagine if you'd extended that drop off down to 5Hz??? It'd probably be -38 dB if that slope holds!!!! Perhaps even lower than that if it doesn't!!!! Then if you look at the composite calibration file data from the first batch of UMIKs... even that's looking impossible but for the opposite reason, those are waaaay too flat to be off by only -3dB or less going down to 5Hz, its simply not believable. In fact if you account for that 'jag' in the freq response at 20Hz then it would appear all 188 UMIKs in the first batch fall into a +/- 2.5dB variance all the way down to 5Hz... that's so totally fake. So apparently none of the below 20Hz data for either batch is correct... what is going on

Apparently the UMIK uses the same Panasonic capsule as the ECM8000 but looking at the composite cal files from Cross Spectrum Labs for their calibrated ECM8000s only going down to 20Hz the variance is far greater yet those look more believable. In their example file for the ECM8000 posted on their website... it is down -6dB by 10Hz and down -13dB by 5 Hz... I assume they selected a middle-of-the-road cal file to use as their example cal file... if so, then none of these UMIK cal files bear any resemblance what-so-ever to the ECM8000, even accounting for differences in housing effects.

And then there is still that sensitivity factor mystery with high noise floors being reported, also those mystery 1kHz spikes (and overtones), etc...

I hope they can get to the bottom of all this soon and straighten the mess out... Until then, I don't recommend anyone looking to get a USB measurement mic even consider this UMIK!

Phillips... if this goes on much longer without resolution I may just have to take your suggestion and "bite the bullet" and send my UMIK in to Cross Spectrum for a real calibration by professionals... and if that's what it ends up coming down to to get a reliable calibration file for my UMIK I'm going to be upset.
Attached Thumbnails
MiniDSP UMIK-1 Microphone-snowmanick-file.jpg  

MiniDSP UMIK-1 Microphone-cf-umic-188a.png  

MiniDSP UMIK-1 Microphone-ecm8000freqresp.jpg  


Last edited by monomer; 04-09-13 at 12:23 PM.
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post #470 of 887 Old 04-07-13, 03:29 PM
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Re: MiniDSP UMIK-1 Microphone

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monomer wrote: View Post
Hey Nick, I had some time today and decided to graph your UMIK's response. Without careful examination I had just assumed it was correctly done until I actually started looking at the below 20Hz data just now... Looking at the graph I'm convinced something is not right. Imagine if you'd extended that drop off down to 5Hz??? It'd probably be -38 dB if that slope holds!!!! Perhaps even lower than that if it doesn't!!!! Then if you look at the composite calibration file data from the first batch of UMIKs... even that's looking impossible but for the opposite reason, those are waaaay too flat to be off by only -3dB or less going down to 5Hz, its simply not believable. In fact if you account for that 'jag' in the freq response at 20Hz then it would appear all 188 UMIKs in the first batch fall into a +/- 2.5dB variance all the way down to 5Hz... that's so totally fake. So apparently none of the below 20Hz data for either batch is correct... what is going on

Apparently the UMIK uses the same Panasonic capsule as the ECM8000 but looking at the composite cal files from Cross Spectrum Labs for their calibrated ECM8000s only going down to 20Hz the variance is far greater yet those look more believable. In their example file for the ECM8000 posted on their website... it is down -6dB by 10Hz and down -13dB by 5 Hz... I assume they selected a middle-of-the-road cal file to use as their example cal file... if so, then none of these UMIK cal files bear any resemblance what-so-ever to the ECM8000, even accounting for differences in housing effects.

And there is still that sensitivity factor mystery with high noise floors being reported, also those mystery 1kHz spikes (and overtones), etc...

I hope they can get to the bottom of all this soon and straighten the mess out... Until then, I don't recommend anyone looking to get a USB measurement mic even consider this UMIK!

Phillips... if this goes on much longer without resolution I may just have to take your suggestion and "bite the bullet" and send my UMIK in to Cross Spectrum for a real calibration by professionals... and if that's what it ends up coming down to to get a reliable calibration file for my UMIK I'm going to be upset.
Thank you so much for the info, I am in the same boat. I just don't trust my results with this mic and don't want to spend extensive time and effort tweaking things if the measurements are not reliable. If you go down the path of sending the mic to Cross Spectrum, let me know. Perhaps if enough of us go down this path Cross Spectrum will give us a discount (and Minidsp should refund us!). What a mess.
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