CSL-Calibrated EMM-6 Microphone Sale

**aljordan** · **10-31-09, 12:49 PM**

Hi,

Do the calibration files that ship with microphones work with True RTA or do they need to be translated?

Thanks

**Peter Simonsen** · **10-31-09, 01:14 PM**

Order placed for 2 mics

Kind regards

Peter

**Noubourne** · **10-31-09, 02:29 PM**

Order submitted. Hope we have enough

**denydog** · **10-31-09, 02:56 PM**

Ha! I didn't see the "Additional instructions to seller" button on the PayPal page until half a second after hitting submit!

Anyway, just ordered a basic+

-Jon

**Goldenbear** · **10-31-09, 03:55 PM**

Looking like I won't really need one until next year.

How often will these group buys happen?

**Magnus_CA** · **10-31-09, 06:20 PM**

Sorry if I'm asking a silly question but I've been out of the audio cal world for a little while now...

I was looking at the sample microphone frequency response measurement reports, specifically the table on the right, and I can see the response is down almost 10dB at 16Hz. So you are not technically calibrating the microphone, you're just providing the curve so you can either have the software you're using compensate or compensate mathematically if you're taking measurements manually?

**Anechoic** · **10-31-09, 06:34 PM**

Quote:

robh wrote:

If you're ready to order, you can go over to my site to place your order http://www.cross-spectrum.com/measur...ed_dayton.html . And don't forget that HTS members get an additional $5 off - leave your HTS username with your order in the "Additional instructions to seller" on the PayPal page and I'll refund the $5.

Hi guys,

I got a question asking if robh works with/for me, and I just want to clarify that I'm a one-man shop and robh doesn't work for CSL. I think he was just being helpful by quoting one of my prior posts to answer the post from Audioguy about how to order a mic.

EDIT: The Admin has added quotation marks to his post to clarify.

**Anechoic** · **10-31-09, 06:49 PM**

So this is what I get for going out of town for a few hours.

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How do I order one of these?

Go to my site and scroll down to place an order.

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So this is a very good deal, offered by the kind of person with whom you want to do business. No nonsense, offers a quality product, and sells it at a fair price. If you want a mic, this is the way to go unless your needs demand a studio-level reference mic, at 10 times this price (used) and up.

Thanks for the kinds words. That said, I am human and I do make mistakes (ask the guy from Hawaii who had to wait a month for an ECM8000 because his order landed in my junk email folder) but I try to set things right as best I can.

Also, when I ship an order, I do tell USPS to email out a shipping notification which should have the tracking number. If you don't get that email and you don't hear anything from USPS or me by say, Nov 11, feel free to contact me so see what's up.

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I had a question - just how much variation is there between these microphones that appear to have been made by the same factory? For example, I looked at the sample calibration info for a ECM8000 and the Dayton, they looked quite different in the bass region. I've never see any data for the Nady version.

There are definitely differences between the Behringer and Dayton models (and somewhat between the Behringer and Nady), and they're most apparent to me when I'm testing Dayton and Behringer models in the same session. What causes these differences? I'm not sure, but I'm guessing it's the pre-amp circuit. I need to find an EE to compare/contrast the pre-amp stage.

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Do the calibration files that ship with microphones work with True RTA or do they need to be translated?

They should work with True RTA although you may have to change the file extensions from .FRD to .mic or .cal. I did get an email from a customer who had trouble importing the file because they were too big (my files have 32k points). If that happens, email me with the mic serial number ("CSL Exxx" or"CSL xxx" depending if it's a Behringer or Dayton) and I can email you a smaller file.

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Order placed for 2 mics

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Order submitted. Hope we have enough

Muchas gracias, and we're waay beyond the minimum quantity.

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How often will these group buys happen?

Assuming PE is willing to keep giving me a group rate, there's no reason I can't make this a constant program - I think I'll put up a page to continuously solicit interest, and when I hit a certain threshold I'll make the order. The downside is I'm not sure how long it will be between orders. And obviously if PE or anyone else has a sale on the Behringer, Dayton or Nady, I'll offer a sale.

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So you are not technically calibrating the microphone, you're just providing the curve so you can either have the software you're using compensate or compensate mathematically if you're taking measurements manually?

Short answer is "yes," I just provide corrections curves and I don't modify the mic. "Calibration" is technically not the correct terminology for what I do (which is why up until recently I never used the word) but it has been common enough among audio folks that I finally gave in.

**alcalae** · **10-31-09, 08:48 PM**

It's probably been told before but
Why can't i use, for example, an AKG perception 100, a MXL 2001 or overhead mics with the REW software instead of those pencil shaped measuring mics?
Aren't these flat enough?
What's the difference?

**Harpmaker** · **10-31-09, 09:53 PM**

I know so little about this general topic that I'm a bit self-conscious about posting - don't shoot me!

I realize this mic is calibrated for use in measuring speakers and room acoustics, but how does it work as a mic for general recording (non voice)? I would like to get a relatively inexpensive mic for recording sound effects (such as rain, crickets/frogs, perhaps even traffic). Since I am also interested in getting into speaker and room measurements at a later date I would be interested in one of these mics, but only if it would also serve my current needs as well.

**Anechoic** · **10-31-09, 10:18 PM**

Quote:

Harpmaker wrote:

I know so little about this general topic that I'm a bit self-conscious about posting - don't shoot me!

I realize this mic is calibrated for use in measuring speakers and room acoustics, but how does it work as a mic for general recording (non voice)? I would like to get a relatively inexpensive mic for recording sound effects (such as rain, crickets/frogs, perhaps even traffic). Since I am also interested in getting into speaker and room measurements at a later date I would be interested in one of these mics, but only if it would also serve my current needs as well.

Three possible downsides depending on how you might use the mic:

1. The EMM-6/ECM8000 is an omnidirectional mic which picks up sounds from all directions - you can't "aim" them to pick up a target sound and reject other sounds like a cardioid mic

2. Since the mic is relatively flat, you'll pick up more low-frequency sounds (wind noise/etc) than you would with a recording/voice mic which may be rolled off in the lower frequencies. However, this may actually be a miserable feature. Also, there are any number of DAW programs than can filter out low frequencies (Audacity certainly can) if this is a problem.

3. The EMM-6/ECM8000 are relatively noisy mics so they may not be suitable for making recordings of quiet sounds.

**griz326** · **10-31-09, 10:22 PM**

I'm considering the purchase of either the Behringer or Dayton mics to analyze the different room characteristics in my recording studio. However, am a bit confused as to why a $50 mic on Parts Express is going to cost $110.

From what I read on your website, you document the frequency response of the mic - you do not calibrate it, that is, correct of the frequency response of the mic. Is my understanding of what you do accurate? If so, that only allows me to use your calibration chart of the microphone to manually adjust the readings I get in my room, but does nothing to improve the Behringer. Correct?

I did notice that Room EQ Wizard allows you to import data to calibrate input. Can your frequency response documentation be used that way? Do you provide the useable data.cal file? When you are offering a "calibrated mic" are you actually offering the data to calibrate your test device?

I don't mean to be dense, but I like to be certain I understand what I'm buying before spending my money.

**Anechoic** · **10-31-09, 10:25 PM**

Quote:

alcalae wrote:

It's probably been told before but
Why can't i use, for example, an AKG perception 100, a MXL 2001 or overhead mics with the REW software instead of those pencil shaped measuring mics?
Aren't these flat enough?
What's the difference?

Recording mics often aren't flat, the low-frequencies are usually roll-off and they may have bumps in the higher frequencies to accentuate the human voice and/or instruments (although I don't know if that's the case with those specific mics).

Also the AKG and MXL are both cardioid microphones with means the frequency response will vary with mic orientation at all frequencies (as opposed to omni's like the ECM8000/EMM-6 which are only directional at the highest frequencies and even still that's due to physical limitation rather than design). That doesn't make them totally unsuitable for measurement purposes, but makes interpretation of the results (particularly at low frequencies) much more difficult.

**Anechoic** · **10-31-09, 10:41 PM**

Quote:

griz326 wrote:

I'm considering the purchase of either the Behringer or Dayton mics to analyze the different room characteristics in my recording studio. However, am a bit confused as to why a $50 mic on Parts Express is going to cost $110.

Because I like separating fools from their money. (I kid, I kid!

)

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From what I read on your website, you document the frequency response of the mic - you do not calibrate it, that is, correct of the frequency response of the mic. Is my understanding of what you do accurate? If so, that only allows me to use your calibration chart of the microphone to manually adjust the readings I get in my room, but does nothing to improve the Behringer. Correct?

That is correct. Read my prior post about the terminology (last paragraph).

The frequency response of the Behringer ECM8000 microphone vary widely from unit to unit. There are generalized correction curves around the internet (including here) that you can use but those curves may or may not be applicable to any particular ECM8000. I determine the specific correction curve for each mic. The higher-priced models I sell have additional measurement data, specifically mic sensitivity, polar response and noise floor (which may be of use to advanced/pro users).

The Dayton EMM-6 microphones come from the factory with individual curves. I think my curves more accurate. In any event, all that is supplied with the EMM-6 is a paper sheet of the frequency response that the buyer has to scan in to generate the correction file. I supply a CD with the correction files.

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I did notice that Room EQ Wizard allows you to import data to calibrate input. Can your frequency response documentation be used that way? Do you provide the useable data.cal file?

Yes, I provide the data on a mini-CD that is included with the microphone with text files in .FRD format that is usable with any number of analysis programs (although you may need to rename the file with a .cal or .mic extension).

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When you are offering a "calibrated mic" are you actually offering the data to calibrate your test device?

I'm not sure what you're asking here.

**griz326** · **11-01-09, 12:03 AM**

>>>>>>When you are offering a "calibrated mic" are you actually offering the data to calibrate your test device?

>>>I'm not sure what you're asking here.

Based on the other answers, the answer is YES. The value you provide is in correcting an inexpensive microphone to approximate the values that would be generated by high-end test microphone.

Thank you. I will now order the Behringer...unless based on what I've written you think I should order the Dayton. ...I'll await your response before submitting the order.

Unlike most of the users of this forum, I am less interested in the room's influence on the sound of my studio monitors (although that is instructive) than I am in the way the recording room reacts to the sound of my voice. If you have any instructions on ways to modify testing techniques for that objective, I would appreciate it.

I am happy.

**Anechoic** · **11-01-09, 12:52 AM**

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griz326 wrote:

Thank you. I will now order the Behringer...unless based on what I've written you think I should order the Dayton. ...I'll await your response before submitting the order.

Six of one, a half-dozen of the other. If you buy the Dayton, you'll save $10, but you won't get your mic until the end of next week. If you order the Behringer, you'll likely have it by the end of this coming week but you'll pay more.

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Unlike most of the users of this forum, I am less interested in the room's influence on the sound of my studio monitors (although that is instructive) than I am in the way the recording room reacts to the sound of my voice.

It looks like you need to measure reverberation time (RT60). There should be a number of software programs that will do the trick.

**mclab** · **11-01-09, 01:00 AM**

I just submitted an order for a EMM-6 shipped to Hong Kong. I forget to include my login name with the paypal order though - hope you can fix that for me. Thanks.

Jack

**Anechoic** · **11-01-09, 04:34 PM**

FYI, Dayton deal ends tonight midnight (Monday 12am).

I will have extras available but I probably won't list them until next weekend. Please don't ask to be wait listed, when the extras are available I'll put them on the site and I'll announce it here.

As I indicated earlier, I will continue to solicit interest in future group deals - after the extras are all gone, I'll put up a form at the aforementioned link to collect names of people who are interested in further groups purchases and once I get a dozen people or so, I'll repeat the deal.

Thanks for all the business guys.

**nerdful1** · **11-01-09, 05:59 PM**

Regarding 'calibration', is refreshing you know the details. Just shows more of your professional side of your audio life. I come from metrology, and it was interesting to see some recent posters querying you.
What do you officially call your data, correction charts/data?
Anyway, your services a bargain in this day and age.

**ryanenen** · **11-01-09, 08:34 PM**

I'm new member. Knowing that there is a group buy of the mic, would like to know what are the difference between:

1) Basic
2) Basic +
3) Premium
4) Premium +

Thanks

**Anechoic** · **11-01-09, 08:59 PM**

Quote:

nerdful1 wrote:

Regarding 'calibration', is refreshing you know the details. Just shows more of your professional side of your audio life. I come from metrology, and it was interesting to see some recent posters querying you.

Questions are always good. Given that I'm trying to get my grubby hands on your hard-earned cash, I see it as my obligation to be as informative as a can.

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What do you officially call your data, correction charts/data?

"Microphone characterization" or micropohpne frequency-response measurements.

**Anechoic** · **11-01-09, 09:06 PM**

Quote:

ryanenen wrote:

I'm new member. Knowing that there is a group buy of the mic, would like to know what are the difference between:

1) Basic
2) Basic +
3) Premium
4) Premium +

Thanks

Basic microphones give on-axis (mic pointing at noise source) frequency response measurements only.

Basic+ microphones give on-axis and two off-axis (45 and 90 degree) frequency response measurements.

Premium microphones give on-axis frequency response measurements along with full polar measurements (400 Hz to 16 kHz in 1/3 octave bands), mic sensitivity and noise floor.

Premium+ mics are the same as Premium but with the two off-axis frequency response measurements.

In terms of target markets, I usually recommend Basic mics for people just doing speaker measurements, Basic+ mics for people who do room-acoustics measurements, and Premium microphones for advanced users who need sensitivity/noise floor measurements and who may need to know the directional characteristics of the microphone at arbitrary frequencies/directions.

If you're a beginner/novice, chances are you'd be fine with one of the Basic models.

**antilog** · **11-01-09, 09:11 PM**

I received the mic recently. The calibration files are handy with Room EQ wizard, and it sounds great for recording. Tight package altogether. I'll keep CSL in mind for future calibration needs.

**ryanenen** · **11-01-09, 10:50 PM**

Quote:

Anechoic wrote:

Basic microphones give on-axis (mic pointing at noise source) frequency response measurements only.

Basic+ microphones give on-axis and two off-axis (45 and 90 degree) frequency response measurements.

Premium microphones give on-axis frequency response measurements along with full polar measurements (400 Hz to 16 kHz in 1/3 octave bands), mic sensitivity and noise floor.

Premium+ mics are the same as Premium but with the two off-axis frequency response measurements.

In terms of target markets, I usually recommend Basic mics for people just doing speaker measurements, Basic+ mics for people who do room-acoustics measurements, and Premium microphones for advanced users who need sensitivity/noise floor measurements and who may need to know the directional characteristics of the microphone at arbitrary frequencies/directions.

If you're a beginner/novice, chances are you'd be fine with one of the Basic models.

Just ordered Basic plus. I'm a novice and got to check out how to use it.

(login name "ryanenen" added into the order)

Hope to receive it soon.

**mrjones** · **11-02-09, 10:27 AM**

missed the window, however just ordered the prem+ Behringer ECM8000, thanks for the service

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