buttkicker hum, please help - Page 2 - Home Theater Forum and Systems - HomeTheaterShack.com

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post #11 of 17 Old 06-14-07, 09:25 PM
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Re: buttkicker hum, please help

Simply saying the fire referenced had nothing to do with grounding. So I fail to see what relevance that thread has to this one.
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post #12 of 17 Old 06-14-07, 09:54 PM
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Re: buttkicker hum, please help

By the way, the halogen lights don't need to be on the plug, just in the same wiring as the outlet. If your lights are run on the same circuit as the plugs and you have halogen bulbs you can pick up the hum.
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post #13 of 17 Old 06-15-07, 01:11 AM
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Re: buttkicker hum, please help

i just meant to reference the post that something has gone wrong with them. Ok the fire was not caused by a grounding issue, but it is better to be safe then sorry.
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post #14 of 17 Old 06-15-07, 05:52 AM
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Re: buttkicker hum, please help

Darin wrote: View Post
Simply saying the fire referenced had nothing to do with grounding. So I fail to see what relevance that thread has to this one.
You said "All the ground does is protect you from getting shocked if an internal short would cause the chassis to become live." It is true that the ground is there for safety and primaily to prevent a shock hazard. It is untrue that such a shock hazard cannot create a fire. The inclusion of the phrase "all the ground does" makes you statement incorrect and potentially mislieading with respect to the importance of maintaining a ground on a unit that is designed to use it.

The point is that there are good reasons to maintain the ground and that your nit picking at the post ended up making a potentially dangerous and incorrect point. Here at HTS, we try to focus on helping people to understand rather than picking apart their posts and on imparting facts correctly. Your post did not add knowledge and moved the discussion toward an argument rather than informing. Pleae try to make posts that inform or impart some experience that others will find useful.

So someone made a post that was out of context. Then make that point without creating confusion regarding the safety issues. Better, let is go without comment. Being pedantic is one thing, creating confusion and confict is another. Let it go.

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post #15 of 17 Old 06-20-07, 01:54 AM
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Re: buttkicker hum, please help

Actually, since I know Darin is the owner of the amp that burned up, I consider his comments to be informative, and impart not just "some" but rather "the actual" experience that others might find useful.

I'm also not sure that I agree with a number of your analogies. In the interest of helping people to understand rather than picking apart a post, I would like to offer the following thoughts:

Question: How much current needs to flow in an open circuit in order to start a fire?

Answer: Stupid question right! Current doesn't flow in an open circuit, so one could reasonably assume that if a circuit is open, there should be little opportunity for electrical energy to be transferred into to heat and cause a fire.

The capacity to carry high current levels that makes a ground an effective safety feature is also a big part of what makes it difficult to detect many of the precursory conditions that could lead to or directly cause fires in residential and commercial wiring systems. The problem is simple. Provide a path for current to flow and it will do just that. In many instances when a device has failed the flow of current would cease, were there not an additional path provided by the chassis or earth ground.

Unfortunately, it is a risk to human life to operate most equipment without a ground. Without a ground, a human making contact with a faulty device might well become the path for current too flow.:raped: A number of studies have been performed to try and determine how to solve this detection/interrupt problem that has plagued residential and commercial HVAC systems since their inclusion.

Most of the recent studies have focused on different interrupt technologies. Some of the interrupt technologies tested included ground fault detection, arc-fault detection, new circuit breaker technologies, surge detection, as well as other new supplemental protection technologies. Effective, economical electrical products that can upgrade the safety of electrical wiring systems are still a little ways out.

The problem is there are simply too many fault conditions presented by today’s high current grounded systems and no one technology is capable of sensing and/or interrupting the high current flow for each of these conditions. Until these many technologies can be further developed and combined into an overall solution, I expect the cost will continue to out weigh what most people might consider to be the benefits.

So I think one could safely say that while grounds provide a safer environment in which to operate a piece of equipment, they might well be considered as a strong contributor to the cause for many electrical fires. As indicated earlier, in many instances of electrical failure, current would simply have no place to continue flowing, without this additional path.

I hope my "nit picking" makes a point without confusing the safety issues or misleading the importance to safety of life for maintaining a good equipment ground. As you said; grounds are there for a reason, use em.
post #16 of 17 Old 06-20-07, 05:24 AM
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Re: buttkicker hum, please help

Better understanding is certainly one of the things that we are after here. Whether the amplifier fire was affected by grounding or not is uncertain, but is is reasonable to assume that he is right and it did not. This is all beside the point, however.

The bottom lne is that grounds exist for safety reasons. Whether having a ground in place is more likely to contribute to internal fires in the equipment or not, its absence certainly could present a potential shock hazard if voltage is allowed to exist on the chassis. If grounds paths are to be broken for hum reduction the place to do so is on the signal grounds, not on safety grounds, other than for short term testing. Arguing otherwise because a ground could potentially create a current path and increase the possibility for a fire is like arguing that people should not wear safety belts. The safety benefits of maintaining ground integrity outweigh the risks by far. No safety scheme can account for all possible failure modes, as you pointed out. You could also make the case that without a ground a hot chassis could create a fire if an arc occurs to some other ground path. No current exists before that arc, so is it true that no fire hazard exists, of course not. This is all silly unless analyzing a fire cause after the fact.

The point remains that grounds on systems that are not double isolated exist for good safety reasons and should be maintainted, other than for testing purposes, and this should be done carefully.

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post #17 of 17 Old 09-27-09, 09:23 AM
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I was thinking use the BFQ2496 and centre the frequency 60Hz since that’s the mains power source of supply in the US. UK 50Hz!

It will reduce hum but you’d need a EQ on the LCRS or LFE.1 boasted to compensate for the reduction in frequency.
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