Which subwoofers would you like to see being tested?

[Ilkka]

bgilly wrote:

well here is where I am at with my subwoofer situation now.

Last Feb I got the 16-46+ with plans for a 2nd because I'm a bass head. The actually Specs and performance on the Ultra were unknown at that time even by the great guys at SVS...

I like the sub, but just wish I had more BASS in the 20-40hz region than I do. I knew when I bought it that I was going to be missing out on some bass, but I know a 2nd one would solve that headroom issue.

Then I think why spend 950 on a 2nd one when I could spend 1300 on the Ultra-PC and just tune it to 15hz. People have been raving about the 10 and 15hz modes of the Ultra and how great it sounds when tuned to these settings. I just cannot belive the number of amazed people...

So....In your opinion....Should I:

A. Buy a 2nd 16-46+ to pair with my current one and never look back. Would this give me 115-120db cleanly from 15hz to 80hz... (right now I'm pretty clean in that range averaging about 107-109db..)

Well this one is easy. A second identical co-located subwoofer will give you +6 dB, and not a single dB more. So if you are now getting 107-109 dB, with duals it would be 113-115 dB. If you want again 6 dB more, you need total of four subs.

B. Buy a PC-13 and pair it with my current sub and have the best of both worlds....I would have the 16-46+ which I could leave in native or tune it down to 12hz....which could be the sub I use to dig really deep, while the Ultra could be in 20 or 15hz mode and I could use it to really kill the rest of the freq range...maximizing its amazing freq and spl ability. I could colocate or use different placement and it wouldn't even look funny since they are both PCs and they are identical in height and width.

I don't recommend this combination because you'd have to dial the 16-46PC+ lower because of its lower max SPL capability. Also they won't have identical frequency responses so you won't get a full +6dB at every frequency.

If you can afford one new subwoofer, I would recommend getting another 16-46+ instead of Ultra. Of course selling your current subwoofer and getting two new Ultras would be the best choice. Of course there's also the magical world of DIY, but I assume you are not interested in that?

Thanks ahead of time for your input....I know you don't know me that well, but I really value your input and have read a ton of your information here, on HTspot, and AVS...

oh the choices we have in this fun land of HT!!!

I have read your post and SPL threads on the "other forum" so I know you pretty well.

[dieselpower1966]

I would love to see the Emotiva DRS-1 Dual 12" subs without outboard 600 Watt amplifier and included mic for Eq set up all for $1,000
my second would be the Outlaw dual setup LFM-1EX setup
THIS WOULD BE A GREAT SHOOT OUT!!

The Emotivas are new and due out January 2008

[djeickme]

I would be interested in a test that compared an entire lineage within one companies history. Let me explain. I would like to see how a major brand like Velodyne has progressed over the years. Let's pick a level in the Velodyne line (top of the line is probably the easiest to define) and compare the products from various vintages. For example compare a ULD-18, HGS 18 and a DD18 (and any other top of the heap 18 inch models that they made). It seems to me that a lot of the progress in subwoofers over the past say 20 years has been related to making smaller and smaller cabinets. This requires ridiculous amounts of enginering and cost (multi thousand watt amplifier and drivers with 4 inch peak to peak excursions are tough to build for reasonable prices). Some of the "discount" sub brands like HSU and SVS seem to be doing very well building models based on the model of the old Velodyne ULD's and Snell SUB 1800's. Build a big enough box and even a relatively tame drive with only one or maybe two inches of peak to peak excursion with a "small" 300-400 watt amp can still pound out the bass and have reasonable sound quality to boot. Let's seen if those of us still holding on to our old subs have lost our mind or simply are willing to devote a bigger swath of real estate to our hobby.

[drdoan]

Dan, as you know, it is a matter of physics. If you want huge bass with little distortion, you must have a large box. If you look at the specs on the small subwoofers, you will see that they are unable to go below @30HZ without significant distortion. If you want the lowest and loudest distortion-free bass, you will have to settle for a large box or a tall tube.
I personally would rather have the lowest, loudest, most distortion-free bass, so, I opted for the fairly large SVS PB12-Plus/2 (with the new 12.3 drivers) and am very pleased with the results.
I once built a 4 cubic ft box and put a 12 in driver in it. I used an old Pioneer receiver to power it. I used the power supply from a VCR to power a car equalizer to help balance the output. The results: I think I was a contender for the making the world's ugliest box sub. As far as the sound, it probably would equal a small 8" sub designed by someone who actually knew what he was doing!
Happy lightning strike/pod emerging/Darla glass tapping to you. Have fun, Dennis

[dieselpower1966]

I would have to disagree about small subs not getting below 30hz.
have you read, seen, or heard the Sunfire line?

[Exocer]

dieselpower1966 wrote:

I would love to see the Emotiva DRS-1 Dual 12" subs without outboard 600 Watt amplifier and included mic for Eq set up all for $1,000
my second would be the Outlaw dual setup LFM-1EX setup
THIS WOULD BE A GREAT SHOOT OUT!!

The Emotivas are new and due out January 2008

duuuude i've totally been interested in these Emotiva subs as well. . .They sure do look sweet.

[dieselpower1966]

I can't wait for the review, I'm going nuts looking for a new sub,
however I'M SOOOO CONFUSED !!!!

[drdoan]

john, yes, I have read about and seen/heard the Sunfire line. they are amazing, but, to get the lowes octave, you still need a larger space for the woofer/s to respond. It was hearing a Sunfire for the 1st time several years ago that got me hooked on having a real subwoofer. Dennis

I noticed that there are no Epic subwoofers that have been tested to date.

I would really like to see the Epik Conquest tested.

HI!

Well... If you look at my thread in the DIY area, you'll see I'm seriously considering using the Aurasound NS18 driver in the sub system I'm putting together for my Music/HT system. It's pretty much four drivers spread across four 20-25 cube boxes tuned to 12-14hz powered by a CE4000 or similar.

My father was talking to one of his friends who said that he might finance our build and have us build him one if he likes the results, I believe.

I was wondering if you might be able to get ahold of the driver and do some tests on it so that I might know what to expect before I actually buy and build it. I don't know if you've seen me before or not.

Thanks. Oh, and happy holidays.

Hi just want to thank you ilkka for all your work with theese tests, it's REALLY aprichiated
i bought the Magnat betasub 38a earlier this year after reading your test on here....(rather modest sub but ok if you dont live in a own house...)

Anyway Magnat has a big broder sub with 2*12" the ; Quantum 932a
that looks intresting @ ~579 Euro in Germany
if it is possible to throw it in next summers test round?






http://www.magnat.de/content/homeent...st_en.asp?pl=1

[jhughes]

Thanks Ilkka, such superb work - rarely if ever seen. It seems you are struggling to find something that outperforms the DIY LMS 5400 designs ( and I am not surprised as that is a serious woofer) Just a thought, but have you considered testing the ATC SCM 0.1/15 subwoofer. It looks big and boxy (120+ liters), and more like those big DIY subs rather than the mostly much smaller subwoofers you have tested so far.

[Ilkka]

djeickme wrote:

I would be interested in a test that compared an entire lineage within one companies history. Let me explain. I would like to see how a major brand like Velodyne has progressed over the years. Let's pick a level in the Velodyne line (top of the line is probably the easiest to define) and compare the products from various vintages. For example compare a ULD-18, HGS 18 and a DD18 (and any other top of the heap 18 inch models that they made). It seems to me that a lot of the progress in subwoofers over the past say 20 years has been related to making smaller and smaller cabinets. This requires ridiculous amounts of enginering and cost (multi thousand watt amplifier and drivers with 4 inch peak to peak excursions are tough to build for reasonable prices). Some of the "discount" sub brands like HSU and SVS seem to be doing very well building models based on the model of the old Velodyne ULD's and Snell SUB 1800's. Build a big enough box and even a relatively tame drive with only one or maybe two inches of peak to peak excursion with a "small" 300-400 watt amp can still pound out the bass and have reasonable sound quality to boot. Let's seen if those of us still holding on to our old subs have lost our mind or simply are willing to devote a bigger swath of real estate to our hobby.

That is a very interesting idea but it would be very difficult to acquire for example those three Velodyne subwoofers. Particularly the ULD-18 is getting pretty rare these days. But if this kind of opportunity of testing a larger range from the same manufacturers will be offered to me, I will definitely do it.

[Ilkka]

Dionyz wrote:

I noticed that there are no Epic subwoofers that have been tested to date.

I would really like to see the Epik Conquest tested.

Unfortunately the amplifiers used in Epik subwoofers do not support the 230V voltage used here in Europe so until Chad resolves that issue, I can't test any of his subwoofers.

[Ilkka]

jhughes wrote:

Thanks Ilkka, such superb work - rarely if ever seen. It seems you are struggling to find something that outperforms the DIY LMS 5400 designs ( and I am not surprised as that is a serious woofer) Just a thought, but have you considered testing the ATC SCM 0.1/15 subwoofer. It looks big and boxy (120+ liters), and more like those big DIY subs rather than the mostly much smaller subwoofers you have tested so far.

Unfortunately I didn't found an importer for the ATC here in Finland. It is also a very expensive subwoofer ($8,250), so I doubt anyone in Finland has bought it straight from the manufacturer (UK based company).

[Chrisbee]

Ilkka

Just to add my thanks for publishing your latest results in full.

Have you ever tested a REL Studio?

It has an enviable reputation.

[Ilkka]

arande2 wrote:

HI!

Well... If you look at my thread in the DIY area, you'll see I'm seriously considering using the Aurasound NS18 driver in the sub system I'm putting together for my Music/HT system. It's pretty much four drivers spread across four 20-25 cube boxes tuned to 12-14hz powered by a CE4000 or similar.

My father was talking to one of his friends who said that he might finance our build and have us build him one if he likes the results, I believe.

I was wondering if you might be able to get ahold of the driver and do some tests on it so that I might know what to expect before I actually buy and build it. I don't know if you've seen me before or not.

Thanks. Oh, and happy holidays.

The Aurasound definitely has some very interesting drivers. I'll see what I can do.

[Ilkka]

jesper wrote:

Anyway Magnat has a big broder sub with 2*12" the ; Quantum 932a
that looks intresting @ ~579 Euro in Germany
if it is possible to throw it in next summers test round?

I'll see what I can do.

[Ilkka]

Chrisbee wrote:

Ilkka

Just to add my thanks for publishing your latest results in full.

Have you ever tested a REL Studio?

It has an enviable reputation.

No, I haven't ever tested a REL Studio. It is a very expensive subwoofer (8500 EUR here), so I doubt anyone owning it wants to bring it to the testing field. But even though I haven't tested it, I can say for certain that its dual 10" woofers and 500W amp won't be able to keep up with today's high performance subwoofers. Naturally it can and most probably will sound very good when using low to medium listening levels, but for certain it's not a subwoofer for a true movie buff. The REL Studio is a clear high end product with a huge price tag that doesn't directly reflect its true performance compared to today's popular and lower priced subwoofers.

[Chrisbee]

Thanks Ilkka. I saw a post making a comparison to 2 x JL Fathoms.

[Ilkka]

Chrisbee wrote:

Thanks Ilkka. I saw a post making a comparison to 2 x JL Fathoms.

Assuming that the REL Studio is tuned to around 20 Hz or slightly below, it could probably come close to a single Fathom f113 when it comes to maximum clean output in deep bass range (say around 15-25 Hz), but anywhere else the f113 would quickly pull away. Dual Fathoms or a Studio... not even a question.

[darrellh44]

Ilkka wrote:

Unfortunately the amplifiers used in Epik subwoofers do not support the 230V voltage used here in Europe so until Chad resolves that issue, I can't test any of his subwoofers.

Ilkka,

Can't you just fire up a 110V generator next to the amp?

[Ilkka]

darrellh44 wrote:

Ilkka,

Can't you just fire up a 110V generator next to the amp?

Yes I could. But they aren't free (1500VA step down transformer costs around $400), and also the sub would be useless to the next European owner unless he buys a transformer too. So I'm waiting for the 230V compatible models instead...

[darrellh44]

Kidding...I think the subs using the generator might have a little too much spurious harmonic distortion in their measurements.

[smbear]

are the (rlp 18) and the mach5 (IXL18.4) and (FI q18) on the test list yet ? these would be woofers alot of people are using.