LMS-5400 buy-in

**jmcomp124** · **10-08-07, 03:03 PM**

Quote:

Ilkka wrote:

It is an interesting topic of discussion, but the method you described isn't (IMHO) very good nor give accurate and consistent/comparable results. I will promise to ponder this issue a little bit further when I have finished with these current results. One thing is certain though: I will not take any new measurements until next spring/summer. Basically the weather just doesn't allow it.

The method I described is pretty crude and needs to be refined. It was only to convey the idea so it will get you to think along those lines. I have some ideas on how we can refine it. We can discuss this off-line.

**jpmst3** · **10-09-07, 07:00 AM**

Thanks for those tests!

I love my LMSs/CEs even more now! (not that I needed a test to validate what I feel) Whoooohooo!

**ssabripo** · **10-09-07, 08:10 AM**

Quote:

Ilkka wrote:

Oh but wait. Good performance on objective measurements doesn't mean anything because they can not tell anything how the subwoofer sounds and feels subjectively. It can sound absolute even though measures great, and vice versa.

And a single number (or max two) is all you need to define how good a subwoofer is.

**10-09-07, 08:59 AM**

Ilkka,

Thank you for posting the specs on your boxes. Now I'll patiently await the test results.

**ISLAND1000** · **10-09-07, 12:02 PM**

I noticed after purusing the photos that the LMS driver is mounted using the rubber gasket and the PRs look as though they are not. Do you think the gasket allows a good solid mechanical hookup to the baffle? Did the PRs come with a gasket? Do you think the specified bolts are sufficient for mounting the driver?
I guess just looking at the performance may be the best answer to my questions.

**Ilkka** · **10-09-07, 12:24 PM**

Quote:

ISLAND1000 wrote:

I noticed after purusing the photos that the LMS driver is mounted using the rubber gasket and the PRs look as though they are not. Do you think the gasket allows a good solid mechanical hookup to the baffle? Did the PRs come with a gasket? Do you think the specified bolts are sufficient for mounting the driver?
I guess just looking at the performance may be the best answer to my questions.

All the drivers came with rubber gaskets but the gaskets for the PRs were somewhat worse than the LMS-5400 gasket so I decided to use proper weather stripping with the PRs. I didn't have any problems with "mechanical hookup" or leaks.

The supplied bolts are sufficient.

**Ilkka** · **10-09-07, 03:38 PM**

http://www.hometheatershack.com/foru...ll-2007-a.html

If someone hasn't noticed, first results (CEA-2010 standard) have been posted in that thread.

**jpmst3** · **10-09-07, 10:27 PM**

Illka, can you please update the index to include all the latest tests?

Thanks!

**jmcomp124** · **10-09-07, 11:42 PM**

Quote:

Ilkka wrote:

http://www.hometheatershack.com/foru...ll-2007-a.html

If someone hasn't noticed, first results (CEA-2010 standard) have been posted in that thread.

In terms of sheer output, your results co-relate pretty well to what I expected and experienced.

.
Awesome job Ilkka. Kudos!

**jpmst3** · **10-10-07, 12:01 AM**

Hmmmm, what is up your sleave Jai?

**Ilkka** · **10-10-07, 03:59 AM**

Quote:

jpmst3 wrote:

Illka, can you please update the index to include all the latest tests?

Thanks!

What do you mean? All the latest info is here.

I can't update the index until I have processed the full results.

**jpmst3** · **10-10-07, 08:48 AM**

Quote:

Ilkka wrote:

What do you mean? All the latest info is here.

I can't update the index until I have processed the full results.

Thanks for all the work you do.

I see, I didn't realize there was even more to do. I did see the results for the latest round and that is one amazing compilation of data.

I was just trying to make it all easier to find for others by having it all in one place. But, I didn't realize you were still working on it. Sorry for my ignorance to the testing process. I only stubled upon it the last couple of days. It seems the Shack is the better forum to be on.

**Ilkka** · **10-10-07, 08:54 AM**

Quote:

jpmst3 wrote:

Thanks for all the work you do.

I see, I didn't realize there was even more to do. I did see the results for the latest round and that is one amazing compilation of data.

I was just trying to make it all easier to find for others by having it all in one place. But, I didn't realize you were still working on it. Sorry for my ignorance to the testing process. I only stubled upon it the last couple of days. It seems the Shack is the better forum to be on.

There is definitely A LOT more to do.

Each subwoofer will have its own thread similar to this for example.

**jpmst3** · **10-10-07, 12:57 PM**

Quote:

Ilkka wrote:

There is definitely A LOT more to do.

Each subwoofer will have its own thread similar to this for example.

Excellent! I am looking forward to seeing All the data!

I can't thank you enough for taking the time and effort to do these tests.

The results are like the Holy Grail of woofage!

You are "the man!"

**jpmst3** · **10-10-07, 01:00 PM**

Quote:

jmcomp124 wrote:

Just a psycho-acoustic related question about long/short term memory on subwoofer performance. Don't read into it too mcuh.

Ya, actually I do remember that thread over at AVS involving a certain rankings based person.

**noah katz** · **10-10-07, 02:16 PM**

"If you heard the f113 one evening and the LMS, the next, can you tell the difference? If you heard a month apart? What if you heard them 2 months apart? How about 4 months apart?"

It would depend in large part on the listening level of course.

**cixelsid** · **10-15-07, 11:10 AM**

Quote:

DS-21 wrote:

Interesting. I must admit some degree of..."disappointment" isn't quite the right word, but "underwhelmedness" isn't quite a word...with my Avalanche 18. (Condition shouldn't be an issue, as it was reconed by Fi before I ever saw it.) It's a great sub, but I was expecting a little more.

The original larger AA drivers had performance issues. Numerous people tested them to only find the T/S parameters didn't meet those published. Online conversations between DanW and Chad indicated the AA drivers had a rather 'generic' (read sub-optimal) implementation of the XBL^2 technology..

This information make one curious as to why anyone would favor the AA drivers over the newer offerings from other companies.

**noah katz** · **10-15-07, 05:06 PM**

DS-21,

I'm curious what exactly you found wanting in the Av18.

Are it and the JBL EQ'ed for similar freq response? Even then the room the JBL is in (smaller I presume for a 2nd system) could be giving it an advantage.

**SteveCallas** · **10-15-07, 09:21 PM**

Quote:

cixel wrote:

Numerous people tested them to only find the T/S parameters didn't meet those published.

Can you reference this, cause I recall people saying such things but basing it off of "thumping the cone with their finger" and "it sure didn't sound like 16hz Fs"

It would seem to meet its parameters related to shaping a FR based on my own FR measurements - as for travel limits, I don't know.

Quote:

Online conversations between DanW and Chad indicated the AA drivers had a rather 'generic' (read sub-optimal) implementation of the XBL^2 technology..

I've seen these conversations and I came across with the impression that Dan didn't like the idea of a competitor who was using his technology to create a less exensive product with more displacement getting more favorable reviews from end users, so he started talking about how all XBL^2 implementations aren't equal. The notion from enthusiasts at the time was essentially why should they spend $600 on a 15" Tumult when they can get an 18" Avalanche for $400 which sounds better anyway. In the small and fickle DIY subwoofer driver market, you can't let a notion like that spread too quickly. Problem is (from my point of view at least), he didn't provide any measurements or specs related to either the Avalanches or Tumults.

It's kind of the same thing with the LMS drivers. Dan essentially talked them down quite a bit in his comparison of XBL^2 to LMS, stating several reasons for XBL^2 being superior, yet when Ilkka put the rubber to the road, the LMS performs significantly better.

**kyle_k** · **10-16-07, 01:06 AM**

Business is business Steve.

**Larry McConville** · **10-20-07, 03:33 PM**

I realize I'm late to the LMS5400 party; any thoughts about organizing a group buy and having TC build some units? I was sitting on the fence because rumor had it that Deon was trying to organize something; next thing I know he had already parted company with TC. I suppose I'm just thinking out loud...

**steve nn** · **10-21-07, 09:04 PM**

Quote:

any thoughts about organizing a group buy and having TC build some units?

I wonder if that could be a possibility? No more MDF though

**kyle_k** · **10-21-07, 11:45 PM**

All our efforts are on Audiopulse now. the 5400's are replaced with the Ultra's with some improvements to durability and power handling.

**ssabripo** · **10-22-07, 08:24 AM**

too bad Kyle.....because at those prices, the sales of the "ultra" will be few and far in between I'm afraid.

I remember when Deon (with my help) was trying to organize a group buy over at avs, but Bott shut my thread down....anyways, there was plenty of interest in getting a group buy of the LMS5400 18" at around $750 if we could get at least 20 buys.

If Thilo decided to throw something like that together, and sell some Ultras for say $800 if we could sign up 20 people, I think it will be a good success.

just food for thought.

**Larry McConville** · **10-22-07, 08:47 AM**

If we could come in around the $750 mark I'll sign up for 2 - 4 units!

Larry

Quote:

ssabripo wrote:

too bad Kyle.....because at those prices, the sales of the "ultra" will be few and far in between I'm afraid.

I remember when Deon (with my help) was trying to organize a group buy over at avs, but Bott shut my thread down....anyways, there was plenty of interest in getting a group buy of the LMS5400 18" at around $750 if we could get at least 20 buys.

If Thilo decided to throw something like that together, and sell some Ultras for say $800 if we could sign up 20 people, I think it will be a good success.

just food for thought.

Advertisement