LMS-5400 buy-in - Page 16 - Home Theater Forum and Systems - HomeTheaterShack.com

 
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post #151 of 312 Old 09-20-07, 06:33 PM
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Re: LMS-5400 / RL-p18" buy-in

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anidabi wrote: View Post
You are kidding right? You must be talking about the avalance, because none of the LMS looks good on 650 liter enclosure.
He's probably using "heavy damping" and "minor leaks" options in Unibox. With those even the LMS looks pretty good in that kind of enclosure. But they don't correlate with real world measurements. One can't stuff a ported enclosure that much because then it wouldn't work as a ported subwoofer (Helmholtz resonator) anymore.
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post #152 of 312 Old 09-20-07, 09:51 PM
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Re: LMS-5400 / RL-p18" buy-in

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Ricci wrote:
Actually it looks pretty good in 650 liters tuned to 14hz with a 10" diameter port if you ask me. You could use an 8" port but its not going to be enough if you really crank it.
Well you wouldn't really want to use a 10" port because the length would be such that the port resonance would probably be audible. You could use a lower crossover, but then you are kind of wasting the upper frequency linear and output capabilities of this driver. I also wouldn't tune much higher than 13hz, as this driver is overflowing with capability - might as well shift some of it to the low end.

With the 8" port, you would be limiting how much output you'd be able to ask from the driver unless you don't mind chuffing. Sure, you'd be hitting reference levels before experiencing any problems, but it seems a lot of potential is wasted none the less. Also, the low end FR on such a design isn't damped enough - there is a resurgence in output belwo 20hz. On it's own it's not bad at all, maybe a db or two, but when combined with some room gain, you'd have a peaky low end.

A great driver, just not LLT friendly. It would be nice if they made one that was.


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post #153 of 312 Old 09-20-07, 09:59 PM
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Re: LMS-5400 / RL-p18" buy-in

Ilkka, perhaps a silly question, but could you hear any sonic differences between the drivers just from testing them in free air with a FR sweep? When it comes to real material, I wonder if the difference would even manifest itself, as the other two drivers stayed below 5% at the same levels in the audible range, which isn't shabby by any means except when compared to the LMS. Seeing as the distortion on the other drivers only starts rising in the subsonic range, and the subsonic range is mostly limited to movie sound effects, I wonder how much of a difference it would make.

Don't get me wrong though, this driver is clearly superior, and it definitely gets the nod.


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post #154 of 312 Old 09-21-07, 08:45 AM
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Re: LMS-5400 / RL-p18" buy-in

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Regarding those passive radiators. Mine have only single 10" spider; someone over at AVS posted pics of his PRs, and they have dual spiders?
For ease of reference, I'll post the pictures here also:
post #155 of 312 Old 09-21-07, 04:24 PM
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Re: LMS-5400 / RL-p18" buy-in

No I actually wasn't kidding. It doesn't look that bad. Yes it gets a little peaky around 13-15hz, but it's only 2db's. Whats wrong with using a little EQ? The 10inch vent would have a port resonance of 172hz, kind of low, yes, but i've seen worse. Of course this is not what it was intended for, and the response does look like compared to a nice 400L enclosure. 13-200hz response within 3.5dbs is far from terrible though.Maybe my parameters are off slightly. Of course this is all just simulation anyway, and not real world measurement.

NO I would not actually use an LMS like that.
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post #156 of 312 Old 09-21-07, 08:58 PM
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Re: LMS-5400 / RL-p18" buy-in

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noah katz wrote: View Post
"If you're using 2 PR's per active then it should never be a problem."

I stick with my contention that it doesn't matter for a PR no matter how hard you drive it.
YAH RIGHT, lok what i did to mine, and they where the oem10 passives with extra strong cones. dual passive enclosure with a single OEM10 both passives went. took very little figer presure to turn the cone out like that afterwords

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post #157 of 312 Old 09-21-07, 09:10 PM
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Re: LMS-5400 / RL-p18" buy-in

What were the circumstances of that, noah? Enclosure size, tuning, power...
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post #158 of 312 Old 09-21-07, 09:29 PM
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Re: LMS-5400 / RL-p18" buy-in

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Yes it gets a little peaky around 13-15hz, but it's only 2db's.
Now factor in room gain.


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post #159 of 312 Old 09-21-07, 09:40 PM
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Re: LMS-5400 / RL-p18" buy-in

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No I actually wasn't kidding. It doesn't look that bad. Yes it gets a little peaky around 13-15hz, but it's only 2db's.
2 dB? Unibox shows closer to 5-6 dB when compared to proper LLT.


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Whats wrong with using a little EQ?
Most EQs can't equalize frequencies below 20 Hz.
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post #160 of 312 Old 09-21-07, 10:03 PM
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Re: LMS-5400 / RL-p18" buy-in

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Ilkka, perhaps a silly question, but could you hear any sonic differences between the drivers just from testing them in free air with a FR sweep? When it comes to real material, I wonder if the difference would even manifest itself, as the other two drivers stayed below 5% at the same levels in the audible range, which isn't shabby by any means except when compared to the LMS. Seeing as the distortion on the other drivers only starts rising in the subsonic range, and the subsonic range is mostly limited to movie sound effects, I wonder how much of a difference it would make.

Don't get me wrong though, this driver is clearly superior, and it definitely gets the nod.
Not a silly question at all, Steve. Yes, I could hear a difference between the drivers with just a sine sweep. The LMS sounds cleaner/purer than the TC2k or the SDX15. Especially during the two highest sweeps.

But you shouldn't look at the absolute distortion ("stayed below 5%") because that's just a random value, so to speak. This kind of near field free-air testing doesn't really reflect any kind of real world situation (minus dipole subwoofers). It's only good for comparison purposes.

The LMS-5400 18" seems to have around 6 dB more output than the TC-2000 15" while keeping the same distortion level. Typically 18" will gain around 2-3 dB over 15", so the LMS seems to be at least 3-4 dB better than a typical 18" LGLC (and I would say XBL^2, too) subwoofer when it comes to harmonic distortion. Not quite the full 6 dB TC Sounds promised, but still quite a lot. Of course harmonic distortion isn't everything. The free-air frequency response looks really good due to total lack of typical inductance hump (actually looks like a small notch instead). That should work really well when put in an enclosure. I doubt much EQ will be needed to bring it nice and smooth. So quite different than the sealed Tumult or the TC-2000s I measured last time. Then there is also power compression. The massive 4" VC with titanium former should perform really well when some real men power will be utilised. Then we will know more about the real difference to "weaker" drivers.

But naturally the LMS-5400 isn't really for those looking for the best bang for teh buck...but I guess that's pretty obvious.
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