Subwoofer driver buy-in poll

**Ilkka** · **10-23-07, 12:28 PM**

It's a bit strange to start a new buy-in thread when the results for the previous one (LMS-5400) haven't been posted yet, but there are a few Ascendant Audio Avalanche 18" drivers being sold for a reasonable price, and I though I could grab one and test it. Recently the AVA 18" has again been quite a hot topic, especially when the other XBL^2 based subwoofers I have tested haven't quite redeemed all the promises being made.

Would people be willing to help me out with the costs involved?

Also a SS RL-p18 test looks very promising. It would be very interesting to compare these two.

Add one Fi Q18 in the mix... so many woofers, so little time (and money).

EDIT: A poll has been added

I started a poll so we can more easily see which drivers people would like to see being tested AND could chip in to make it happen. Please note that you can select multiple choices.

And by 'chip in' I mean at least $15 - $20 per each driver you voted for.

**Sonnie** · **10-23-07, 02:41 PM**

The Shack will toss in $25 for each driver, AVA 18, RL-p18, and Fi Q18.

**Ilkka** · **10-23-07, 03:00 PM**

Quote:

Sonnie wrote:

The Shack will toss in $25 for each driver, AVA 18, RL-p18, and Fi Q18.

Thank you!

**ssabripo** · **10-25-07, 08:18 AM**

I'm in....but we need to get more people involved. can't cough up $50 on my own, but if we can 10-15 people and have then chip in $15-$20 or so, that's cool.

**WillyD** · **10-25-07, 03:09 PM**

The Rl-p 18 and Q18 have my votes.

**Mike P.** · **10-25-07, 03:39 PM**

I'd be willing to support the Rl-p 18 and the Q18 and also the IXL-18.4. I'm not sure what point there would be in testing the Avalanche 18 since nobody can buy one. If it's XBL^2 that's needs further testing DIYCable.com is coming out with a 18 inch sub. To me it makes sense to test a product that people can buy.

As of now I pledge $20 each for the Rl-p 18 and the Fi Q18. If there is enough interest in a third driver I'll pledge $20 for that one too. I'll edit my post in the future to reflect which one it is.

**Ilkka** · **10-25-07, 06:18 PM**

Guys,

I'm open to all suggestions. If people don't want to see the Avalanche being tested, then we pick something else. Though personally I'm slightly interested in finding out how the Ava does. I would like to give the XBL^2 one more chance, so to speak.

Are there any other interesting drivers out there beside the ones mentioned here? How about the Dayton RSS390HF or HO?

Of course the chosen drivers would have to fit in a few similar enclosures (like one ~500 liter LLT and other smaller sealed). I'm not willing to build five etc. different enclosures for them, especially when most 18 inchers require a huge box.

**Ilkka** · **10-25-07, 06:41 PM**

I started a poll so we can more easily see which drivers people would like to see being tested AND could chip in to make it happen. Please note that you can select multiple choices.

And by 'chip in' I mean at least $15 - $20 per each driver you voted for.

**SteveCallas** · **10-25-07, 09:05 PM**

I'd like to see the SS RL-p18 and a Dayton DVC 15". Why the DVC? I want to see what a "cheapo" 15" driver can do compared to a quality one like the TC2k, SDX, or Tumult. I'm a fan of the multiple, less expensive driver concept - getting the most for a given amount of money to spend. Speaking of which, count me in for $20 a piece or $30 for one.

And are you really going to build a 500 effective liter enclosure? Sonosub or box?

**Exocer** · **10-25-07, 10:03 PM**

Sound Splinter RL-p15/18, Fi Q15/18, Dayton RSS390HF/HO All the way

**Larry McConville** · **10-26-07, 08:33 AM**

Quote:

DS-21 wrote:

People can certainly buy them. In fact, I did just that a couple months ago. Not new, of course, but I don't see how that changes anything.

I believe a 'currently' active/available product is an important consideration; although, I'm certainly curious to see how one performs. I second the Exodus XJ18; this is a new driver Kevin Haskins is developing utilizing XBL^2 technology.

Larry

**10-26-07, 10:54 AM**

Quote:

Mike P. wrote:

I'd be willing to support the Rl-p 18 and the Q18 and also the IXL-18.4. I'm not sure what point there would be in testing the Avalanche 18 since nobody can buy one. If it's XBL^2 that's needs further testing DIYCable.com is coming out with a 18 inch sub. To me it makes sense to test a product that people can buy.

The XJ-18 is still a little ways away. If it doesn't necessarily have to be an 18" driver, the Tempest-X and Shiva-X will be out right away.

**Ricci** · **10-26-07, 01:37 PM**

I voted for the RLP18D2 and the Q18D2. I don't really care about the 15's.

The other drivers that I would really like to see tested are one of the new RE Audio XXX's, (on paper they look like they can really do some damage in sealed boxes), and the Aurasound NS18.

**Sonnie** · **10-26-07, 06:24 PM**

Remember guys... a vote indicates your willingness to contribute to the buy-in.

It would help if you would edit each of your post and indicate how much you can contribute so that Ilkka can keep a tally on the pledges.

Thanks...

**toecheese** · **10-27-07, 10:52 PM**

Quote:

Ilkka wrote:

Of course the chosen drivers would have to fit in a few similar enclosures (like one ~500 liter LLT and other smaller sealed). I'm not willing to build five etc. different enclosures for them, especially when most 18 inchers require a huge box.

I'd prefer them be tested IB- that way it is the speaker-only and no one can complain of box bias. Not all speakers are sufficient for IB use, but I think the ones you posted are.

Okay, I voted with the knowledge that it'll cost me $25 towards the test. However, I do this with the caveat that the speakers, once purchased, be part of future giveaways at the 'shack.

**SteveCallas** · **10-28-07, 01:33 AM**

That's what I have wondered about - if the forum members pay for drivers, does Ilkka just get to keep them?

**Ilkka** · **10-28-07, 05:59 PM**

Quote:

toecheese wrote:

Okay, I voted with the knowledge that it'll cost me $25 towards the test. However, I do this with the caveat that the speakers, once purchased, be part of future giveaways at the 'shack.

Quote:

SteveCallas wrote:

That's what I have wondered about - if the forum members pay for drivers, does Ilkka just get to keep them?

I think there is a slight misunderstanding. The forum members don't pay for the driver(s), they only pay a small part of it.

You can't just look at the bare price for the driver. When you calculate all the expenses, the total price for each measured driver is WAY higher than the price for the driver itself.

Here's what you have to add for each driver (also any upcoming test):

-shipping (around $250-$300)
-taxes+duty fees (26.5% on the product price+shipping)
-the enclosure (usually at least $150-200 even with bare BB)

So when you add those to the driver price, you'll understand why I need these donations. And I haven't even calculated any price for my own personal work load. The enclosures don't show up on my front door. The subwoofers won't measure themselves. The results won't print out without me putting around 50-100 hours of work on them per each round.

So hopefully you'll understand that I'm slightly against the idea of donating the drivers to a Shack givaway...

And FYI, I got ~$290 worth of donations towards the LMS test.

**Ilkka** · **10-28-07, 06:13 PM**

Quote:

toecheese wrote:

I'd prefer them be tested IB- that way it is the speaker-only and no one can complain of box bias. Not all speakers are sufficient for IB use, but I think the ones you posted are.

There are some difficulties. How can one build an IB to a 2pi environment? In order to push the Fequal below 10 Hz, the baffle would have to be huge. Also the drivers wouldn't see much power, which means no thermal load.

**SteveCallas** · **10-28-07, 10:44 PM**

You know what, forget the 15" DVC. If we really want to try a cheapo driver out, the Dayton Classic 18" might be even better.

**noah katz** · **10-28-07, 10:51 PM**

"-shipping (around $250-$300)
-taxes+duty fees (26.5% on the product price+shipping)
-the enclosure (usually at least $150-200 even with bare BB)"

When you put it that way, it inspires me to offer $50 for an Avalanche 18.

What happens to our contributions if you don't get any contributions and/or you can't find one?

**Ricci** · **10-29-07, 10:29 AM**

Quote:

SteveCallas wrote:

You know what, forget the 15" DVC. If we really want to try a cheapo driver out, the Dayton Classic 18" might be even better.

Why not the Mach5 MJ-18 instead? It seems to be a little more robust for about the same price.

The Ascendant Audio Havoc 18 might be worth testing too. I'm willing to donate $25 each for any of the following: Havoc18, RLp18, Fi Q18, Aura NS18.

**toecheese** · **10-29-07, 10:36 AM**

Isn't 'infinite' huge? If you make a panel that you could mount the speakers in a wall, and have a 24" square sheet that could be removed, you could mount each speaker on said sheet, then bolt it into the wall and quickly go from speaker to speaker.

$300 shipping? You located in Antartica? nm: Finland. I'm thinking it just isn't practical for you to get speakers (since many of them are from the US)

I'd suggest you go to manufacturers themselves and see if they'll donate.

edit: Sorry, I edited your post instead of quoting it. -Ilkka

**Ilkka** · **10-29-07, 10:54 AM**

Quote:

noah katz wrote:

"-shipping (around $250-$300)
-taxes+duty fees (26.5% on the product price+shipping)
-the enclosure (usually at least $150-200 even with bare BB)"

When you put it that way, it inspires me to offer $50 for an Avalanche 18.

I didn't mean it like that, it's just the reality. But thank you.

Quote:

What happens to our contributions if you don't get any contributions and/or you can't find one?

"What happens to our contributions if you don't get any contributions?" Isn't there a paradox? What do you mean?

Finding an Ava 18" isn't a problem.

**Ilkka** · **10-29-07, 11:14 AM**

Quote:

Isn't 'infinite' huge? If you make a panel that you could mount the speakers in a wall, and have a 24" square sheet that could be removed, you could mount each speaker on said sheet, then bolt it into the wall and quickly go from speaker to speaker.

Have you checked the environment where I perform these measurements?

http://www.dvdplaza.fi/galleria/data/954/0011.jpg

There can't be a wall in a 2pi environment (other than the earth itself). Small baffle like 24" square could be one option for comparison purposes only.

Quote:

$300 shipping? You located in Antartica? nm: Finland. I'm thinking it just isn't practical for you to get speakers (since many of them are from the US)

Items that heavy cost around that to anywhere in Europe, no just Finland.

Quote:

I'd suggest you go to manufacturers themselves and see if they'll donate.

Yes, I have tried that. Some will but most won't.

**toecheese** · **10-29-07, 12:18 PM**

I'm not sure of the nature of your testing (the OP didn't say anything about it), but if you really want to do it that way- cut a hole in the door of that building behind you. You'll get your 'huge wall'.

Have you considered a trip to the US? Since your testing lab is outdoors, we might have one or two of those around. ;-) Combine a vacation (welcome to USA where the plunging dollar makes everything cheap to those in Europe), with a visit to a shackster (I can provide the Q18), and run your tests.

View Poll Results: Which drivers would you like to see being tested AND could chip in to make it happen?
Ascendant Audio Avalanche 18	8	15.09%
Sound Splinter RL-p15/18	31	58.49%
Fi Q15/18	15	28.30%
Mach5Audio IXL-18.4	9	16.98%
Dayton RSS390HF/HO	12	22.64%
Something else? (post it)	11	20.75%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 53. You may not vote on this poll

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