DIY TC Sounds TC-2000 15" ported 270L

**Ilkka** · **07-30-07, 12:17 PM**

Manufacturer: DIY
Provided by: Janivaa
Manufacturer link: TC Sounds
Price: ~820 EUR

Manufacturer specs:
• Woofer: TC Sounds TC-2000 15” (SVC 4 ohm)
• Amplifier: the t.amp TA2400 MK-X (~2200 W @ 4 ohm bridged)
• Enclosure: 270 liters, vertical sonotube (“LLT”) (610 mm / 24” dia., 10 mm thick), 57 mm MDF end caps
• Port: 6” flared

Configuration as tested:
Phase: No control
Tuning frequency: ~16.5 Hz (not port blocks

)
Crossover: No control
High pass: No control
Orientation: Standard down-firing, port facing the sky

**Ilkka** · **07-30-07, 12:17 PM**

+/- 3 dB points: 13.5 Hz - 150 Hz

**Ilkka** · **07-30-07, 12:17 PM**

**Ilkka** · **07-30-07, 12:17 PM**

**Ilkka** · **07-30-07, 12:17 PM**

**Ilkka** · **07-30-07, 12:17 PM**

**Ilkka** · **07-30-07, 12:18 PM**

Reserved

**SteveCallas** · **07-31-07, 07:47 PM**

Aside from the unfortunate inductance of the TC2k, the performance looks great. Crossed over at 60hz, this makes for an absolute top notch subwoofer that is even more amazing when you consider price. This is truely what a balanced performer looks like, go LLT

**tweakophyte** · **07-31-07, 09:50 PM**

I don't know, Steve... with all that sloppy group delay and such...

**crackyflipside** · **08-01-07, 09:12 AM**

Quote:

tweakophyte wrote:

I don't know, Steve... with all that sloppy group delay and such...

The GD is actually a lot better than I thought, compare it to any of the commercial SVS subs. The only things that I can raise a concern with are the midbass hill centered around 50hz (which may be very ideal for those who desire a strong midbass performance), and the very slight output compression near the tuning frequency.

All in all it is a very excellent design and I am extremely surprised it isn't being copied by the commercial sub makers.

**SteveCallas** · **08-01-07, 11:47 PM**

As for that "midbass hill", room gain will bring up the low end and a 60hz crossover would flatten out the top end if mated with some capable speakers. Because of the inductance, the TC2k may not be the absolute ideal driver, but it looks pretty good to me

This is a sub_woofer after all.

Not only is the group delay a total non issue despite what so many people have said in the past, but also realize that Ilkka was running max output tests on this sub down to 10hz on a 110db sweep from 2m groundplane with no highpass. That pretty much crushes the "you need a highpass" argument as well. With just a touch of room gain in an averaged size room, this thing should be capable to reference levels down to the very low teens while staying under 10% distortion. Those who have built one, it costs what, maybe $750 including an amp? Untouchable. I love that all those naysayers are now being exposed for how little they really know - I'll be happy for at least a week

I'd love to see a Dayton HiFi15 LLT - though it will have less headroom, it should stay flat with low distortion well above 100hz. If you have plenty of space, multiples of that driver would be a great option. Really I'd love to see a large variety tested in LLT enclosures to see which is the cream of the crop. I may haveto give Ilkka a donation

**tweakophyte** · **08-03-07, 02:24 PM**

I was glad to see such strong results here, too. Someone needs to pull Bosso in here for comments.

**SteveCallas** · **08-03-07, 06:46 PM**

Not only was he wrong bigtime on this matter, he was wrong on his insistance that most music has significant single digit information. I proved that by measuring about 100 songs from vaious genres with decent to great bass. He also runs a dedicated sub for LFE and one for redirected bass, which is akin to throwing free performance out the window with 90% of material. As of late, KG is wanting to highpass the 4 Tumult system bosso designed for him at 20hz because the sealed low end is taxing the woofers too much. It wouldn't suprise me if bosso has been away rethinking his whole outlook on subwoofers

**lvisneau** · **08-04-07, 09:34 AM**

Is there a plan for this sub posted here? I would love to have it. I'm thinking I would rather go this way than IB.

**brucek** · **08-04-07, 10:06 AM**

Quote:

I'm thinking I would rather go this way than IB.

Have you looked at some of the results of SLLT...............

**SteveCallas** · **08-04-07, 01:38 PM**

Quote:

Is there a plan for this sub posted here? I would love to have it.

I'd highly suggest making a small change - increasing the effective volume to 320 liters and lowering the tune to 14.5hz. You can already see that the distortion between 40hz and the tune is extremely low - it's worth taking a small hit in this area to get better extension and a FR that will be even flatter in most rooms

**lvisneau** · **08-04-07, 04:32 PM**

Quote:

SteveCallas wrote:

I'd highly suggest making a small change - increasing the effective volume to 320 liters and lowering the tune to 14.5hz. You can already see that the distortion between 40hz and the tune is extremely low - it's worth taking a small hit in this area to get better extension and a FR that will be even flatter in most rooms

Ok that would work for me. what sizes are we talking here? tube size and length. port size and length?

**SteveCallas** · **08-04-07, 04:53 PM**

That would be something like 24" diameter tube that is 50" tall. The port would be 6" diameter and about 27" long.

**lvisneau** · **08-04-07, 05:47 PM**

Quote:

SteveCallas wrote:

That would be something like 24" diameter tube that is 50" tall. The port would be 6" diameter and about 27" long.

can I go with those exact #'s steve? that size would be great. Also, is my crown ce 2000 sufficient?
and you would go w/ the tc 2000 driver?

**SteveCallas** · **08-04-07, 06:00 PM**

Yes, you can use those numbers. That amp should be fine in bridged mono. There is some pretty good 15" driver competition right now. To be honest, I'd probably grab a $269 Subduction SDX15 at the moment.

**lvisneau** · **08-04-07, 07:11 PM**

Quote:

SteveCallas wrote:

Yes, you can use those numbers. That amp should be fine in bridged mono. There is some pretty good 15" driver competition right now. To be honest, I'd probably grab a $269 Subduction SDX15 at the moment.

looks good, would the parameters be the same as the tc?

**SteveCallas** · **08-04-07, 11:16 PM**

You should probably start a seperate thread for that build, as we're getting off topic.

**Efalegalo** · **10-26-07, 04:16 PM**

I built two of these sonos for my main hometheater room - Steve C and WillD were a huge help - I have them running off of QSC - PLX3402 - and all i can say is that they are unbearable - superb performance but overkill - I have no clue why I built two - I can not imagin why people build such extensive bass setups - My house is old but extremely well built, 1/2" drywall + 3/4" plaster with steel mesh in between - 2 of these put so much compression in my 30"x20" room that its way too much.

**SteveCallas** · **10-28-07, 09:47 PM**

We build two because it's cheap and it's nice to put a solution in place that you will never have to worry about stressing or upgrading again. If only all aspects of live were that easy

Plus you know it puts a big old grin on your face when you experience something like the footsteps at the end of Monster House near reference levels

**Efalegalo** · **10-29-07, 10:08 AM**

Steve,
I had built mine just as you said - 320L - 27"x6" port, tuned to about 14hz - I never got around to equalizing them - I will in a month or so - but I did take reading and it was pretty good - I have to equalize them down a little bit towards the lower end - there is too much room gain. Although, I know I would never need to upgrade, I still think one would have been sufficient. I had no clue what LLT design was capable of.

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