SVS PB12-Plus/2 20 Hz tune (Plus 12.3)

**Ilkka** · **07-16-06, 02:56 PM**

Manufacturer: SVSound
Model: PB12-Plus/2
Provided by: Ilkka
Manufacturer link: SVSound - Box Subwoofers
Price: $1199 (black), $1399 (wood veneer)

Manufacturer specs:
• Twin SVS designed/built custom Plus 12.3 woofers
• SVS designed, full-featured 900 watt BASH ® digital switching amp
• Premium finishes ship with on board Parametric EQ (PEQ)
• Built-in, flush-mount amp configuration
• Down-firing woofers with distinctive SVS integrated base-plate
• Compliant floor mounts, ultra low center of gravity
• Three tuned, patented 4” high-flow flared porting (in and out)
• Assembled and tested by SVS in its Ohio factory
• Extra heavy-duty detachable 8 foot power cord
• 6 wood-finishes
• Selectable 16Hz, 20Hz or 25Hz extension with included port plugs
• Size: 48 cm wide, 67 cm tall and 71 cm deep.
• Weight: 64 kg
• Frequency Response: +/- 3dB to 20hz anechoic
• 3 years warranty

Configuration as tested:
Phase: 0 degrees
Tuning frequency: 20 Hz (one port plug)
Subsonic filter: 20 Hz
Orientation: Standard down-firing, ports facing left
This unit has Plus 12.3 woofers

**Ilkka** · **07-17-06, 10:30 AM**

+/- 3 dB points: 20 Hz - 85 Hz

**Ilkka** · **07-17-06, 10:30 AM**

**Ilkka** · **07-17-06, 02:13 PM**

The frequency response becomes a bit better when plugging one of the ports, although the same mid bass hump can still be seen. Extension goes a full 5 Hz lower as promised. The maximum mid/upper bass output is naturally compromised when compared to the 25 Hz tune. Compared to the dB12.1 unit, these new woofers gain around 1-2 dB in mid/upper bass range. The new woofers have a lower THD in the upper bass range, although there is a pronounced hump in 30-40 Hz range at higher levels. The narrow THD spike around 30 Hz during the 110 dB sweep was probably caused by soft-bottoming of the driver(s) and a simultaneous limiting by the amp limiter. I suspect that the limiter let the output grow a little bit too high which resulted as a spike in THD. As the 115 dB sweep shows, the limiter worked as it should be during that sweep. I'm quite sure this problem can only occur during extreme testing, not during music or movie listening. Group delay stays below the 1 cycle limit at all frequencies. Spectral decay shows a little bit more ringing around the tuning frequency than with the 25 Hz tune. Spectral contamination test shows high output capability with lower than average overall distortion, very similar to the dB12.1 unit. The overall build quality is top-notch and the wood finish looks gorgeous. With some small modifications this could become a very good subwoofer.

+ Good extension
+ High overall maximum output capability
+ Low overall distortion
+ Overall price/performance ratio
+ Build quality and finish

- Shape of the frequency response
- High deep bass output compression

**Ayreonaut** · **08-21-06, 03:59 PM**

I visited the SVS showroom at their Ohio factory last week. I listened to all of their subs from the PB10-NSD to the PB12-Ultra/2. The big ones like the Ultra/2 were literally flapping my pant legs with infrasonic bass. The PB12-Plus/2 is a monster designed to fill a huge room with low, powerful bass. If you have a large room or you "need" 101 dB at 20 Hz (!) then this sub would fit the bill.

My little sealed 10-incher at home is definately faster that this ported beast. (I'm comparing apples to oranges.) A look at the Impulse Response and Spectral Decay above shows that this sub is not well damped in the lowest frequencies, compared to a sealed design. I personally prefer a tightly damped sound, but I don't get this kind of LF output.

**Blaser** · **09-03-06, 06:36 AM**

SVS is famous for reproduction of the deepest frequencies with ease... But concerning the PB 12 +/2 with the new driver (plus 12.3) measurements, it seems that the new driver is less capable below 30 Hz, and loses 4-5 db comparing to the old 12.1 driver at 20 Hz (20 Hz tune FR).... IMO, any frequency below 30 Hz is always welcome.... So, what happened???

**ThomasV** · **09-15-06, 07:01 PM**

I posted a link to this at the AVS subwoofer forum and no one there knows or is willing to answer. I am hoping Ilkka will have time to make comments. I am sure he spent plenty of time already.

**JimLely** · **09-17-06, 03:35 PM**

Quote:

blaser wrote:

SVS is famous for reproduction of the deepest frequencies with ease... But concerning the PB 12 +/2 with the new driver (plus 12.3) measurements, it seems that the new driver is less capable below 30 Hz, and loses 4-5 db comparing to the old 12.1 driver at 20 Hz (20 Hz tune FR).... IMO, any frequency below 30 Hz is always welcome.... So, what happened???

As can be seen, the maximum output levels are about the same for the 12.1 and the 12.3. There is a difference in frequency response, but room gain adds as much as 12 dB per octave below 30 Hz and 15dB of boost at very low frequencies. So the award for flattest response (after including room gain) goes to the 12.3.

**Mr. Lamb Fries** · **10-07-06, 09:47 AM**

Hey Ilkka, Ive seen your completed tests for most of the SVS subs. Is there a chance of you doing an A, B, C comparison between the 12.1, 12.2 and 12.3 series drivers? I have seen a bunch of the 12.1 and 12.2 drivers for sale lately and would like to see how they compare. Is it worth while to upgrade (for SVS owners) to the new drivers or is it just marketing? I wouldnt think the lateral (reading how reputable the SVS company is) but some cant tell the difference (ive read). I was also considering trying a DIY sub with the 12.1 or 12.2 and trying to replicate the SVS sound.

**WillyD** · **10-10-06, 06:11 PM**

Quote:

I was also considering trying a DIY sub with the 12.1 or 12.2 and trying to replicate the SVS sound.

Why replicate when you can improve.

**Mr. Lamb Fries** · **10-10-06, 07:03 PM**

Quote:

WillyD wrote:

Why replicate when you can improve.

Cost-(looking to improve but I know what praise this sub has gotten) Just trying to get something at (or above) this level in SPL & SQ

PB 12 Plus-$899-$1099 w/12.3

DIY-
PB 12.2 driver-about $100-$140 for used
Compairable amp-OAudio 580 watt-$229
Box and materials-$100-150
Cost for DIY-$450-$600

**WillyD** · **10-10-06, 09:25 PM**

I'd use the TC-1000 12" driver, but yeah. That OAudio amp is a good choice.

**Ilkka** · **10-11-06, 05:11 PM**

Quote:

Mr. Lamb Fries wrote:

Hey Ilkka, Ive seen your completed tests for most of the SVS subs. Is there a chance of you doing an A, B, C comparison between the 12.1, 12.2 and 12.3 series drivers? I have seen a bunch of the 12.1 and 12.2 drivers for sale lately and would like to see how they compare. Is it worth while to upgrade (for SVS owners) to the new drivers or is it just marketing? I wouldnt think the lateral (reading how reputable the SVS company is) but some cant tell the difference (ive read). I was also considering trying a DIY sub with the 12.1 or 12.2 and trying to replicate the SVS sound.

Hey,

Unfortunately that would require me buying two dB12.1 and two dB12.2 woofers (since now I have 12.3). Since no one is funding my tests, I would self have to pay those. I have already measured each driver (though not in same sub), so I think that's as far as I will go. The differences aren't big, but there are some. The largest differences are in frequency responses and THD levels.

**Ilkka** · **10-11-06, 05:14 PM**

Quote:

blaser wrote:

SVS is famous for reproduction of the deepest frequencies with ease... But concerning the PB 12 +/2 with the new driver (plus 12.3) measurements, it seems that the new driver is less capable below 30 Hz, and loses 4-5 db comparing to the old 12.1 driver at 20 Hz (20 Hz tune FR).... IMO, any frequency below 30 Hz is always welcome.... So, what happened???

Plus 12.3 drivers have a more "rounder" frequency response, just as the dB12.2 driver already had. dB12.1 is more flatter with a sharper "knee".

Even though the shape of the frequency response has changed, the max output at 20 Hz has stayed pretty much the same. So there is no 4-5 dB loss at 20 Hz when talking about the maximum output.

**Blaser** · **10-11-06, 05:16 PM**

Hey Illka,

What are you waiting to let us know your comments???? They will be highly appreciated!!!! Come on!!

**Ilkka** · **10-11-06, 05:23 PM**

Quote:

blaser wrote:

Hey Illka,

What are you waiting to let us know your comments???? They will be highly appreciated!!!! Come on!!

I know! And I'm sorry about that. But please check this post. http://www.hometheatershack.com/foru...html#post14014

**Mr. Lamb Fries** · **10-11-06, 06:47 PM**

Quote:

Ilkka wrote:

Hey,

Unfortunately that would require me buying two dB12.1 and two dB12.2 woofers (since now I have 12.3). Since no one is funding my tests, I would self have to pay those. I have already measured each driver (though not in same sub), so I think that's as far as I will go. The differences aren't big, but there are some. The largest differences are in frequency responses and THD levels.

Sorry man...I wasnt implying you go and buy a driver/sub, I thought you had already done the tests, and it was a matter of overlaying the two graphs. thought it would only take a few clicks of the mouse!!! My bad. For my DIY, I think I might go with a 15" anyways, so asking about the performance of the older drivers is not that big of an issue to me. I'm lookin at either the SS RL-P 15, or the SSD 15 from Fi Car Audio. Still doing some playing around in WinISD to see if the RL-P would be worth the extra $$$.

**Ilkka** · **10-11-06, 07:01 PM**

Quote:

Mr. Lamb Fries wrote:

Sorry man...I wasnt implying you go and buy a driver/sub, I thought you had already done the tests, and it was a matter of overlaying the two graphs. thought it would only take a few clicks of the mouse!!! My bad. For my DIY, I think I might go with a 15" anyways, so asking about the performance of the older drivers is not that big of an issue to me. I'm lookin at either the SS RL-P 15, or the SSD 15 from Fi Car Audio. Still doing some playing around in WinISD to see if the RL-P would be worth the extra $$$.

Well you have all the graphs here.

I haven't tested dB12.2 on Plus/2, but I can suspect that it's much closer to 12.3 than to 12.1

**stlfdemt** · **02-13-07, 12:44 AM**

I would love to own this sub

**Schwingding** · **02-13-07, 10:05 AM**

Quote:

stlfdemt wrote:

I would love to own this sub

Yes you would. I'm lucky enough to own two!

**Sonnie** · **02-13-07, 10:08 AM**

I own a pair myself... not with the 12.3's, and not that I need the 12.3's. Mine are both tuned to 16hz... it's pretty wicked.

**Dunedain** · **03-24-07, 06:38 PM**

Ilkka: Any updates? Definitely looking forward to your comments on the PB2-Plus using the new 12.3 version of the Plus woofers.

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