The astounding new AS-EQ1 SubEQ goes on sale!

[oddeophile]

Hi, guys. I am new to the forum and just found out about this sub processor. It would help me immensely, being a bit hamfisted and not all that good with computers, if someone would be kind enough to give me a bit of advice on how easy and intuitive it was for them to use the AS-EQ1 software and work through the process. I have two JL Audio F113 subs I need desparately properly EQ in my system. I love them immensely but I never seem to be able to feel I have them fully and properly dialed in. Sound familiar?

Thanks to all and for your patience.

Oddeophile

[stevefish69]

I've posted this on AV-Forums where i normally hang out but thought i'd share me experience here too.

Well i've just had an interesting evening. I've always believed that the EQ1 has been setting my Sub channel too low from day 1. It's always told me to set the gain on the back of my Ultra to around 9am which i've done but i always sensed something was wrong. I could never understand how the EQ1 is channel matching the Sub and speakers and yet does not know how high the main channel is in relation to the Sub. All you normally do is adjust the gain on the Sub until it's 75db and then wind the master volume up or down to match.

Today i grabbed out the RS meter and checked and low and behold, the Sub channel appeared to be set around 10db low

I'm not really a believer of the RS meter as it's un-calibrated and i just thought it must be playing up. Surely my state of the art EQ1 could not be that far out.

Whilst PM'ing Ed with my findings i had a bit of a brainwave. I disconnected the Sub from the EQ1 and hooked it into the back of the processor as you would if you were not using an EQ device. I then hooked the OUTPUT of the EQ1 to the 5.1 Bypass Sub Input on the Processor. This is on the same 5.1 bypass that i use for the front left channel. Both signals are now in relation to each other and move up and down together.

I set the master volume so that the Front left was reading 75db and then wound UP the gain on the back of the sub to 10am to get near to it and make remembering the setting easier. I still had to adjust the Sub trim up to +2db to get it exact.

I may have been missing something in the EQ1 manual but i think what i've done makes sense. I swapped all the cables back to normal, put on the THX intro on the Phantom menace and was nearly blown out of the seat. The Pod race scene was back to it's former glory but better with lush textured Bass that i've been missing for so long

I can't believe that no one else has not spotted this problem too. Maybe it's in the manual and i was just being dim and stupid . I've mailed Ed my findings and hopefully he'll post here with some comments.

[JimP]

Robinhood

I'm just a bit suspect of that 80hz dip. If you have the ability on your sub(s) to reverse the polarity, try doing that and see what happens. Adjusting phase isn't the same thing. Some receivers also have a reverse polarity setting for the subwoofer.

The other possibility is that the speaker is wired backwards. Might want to recheck that.

It could also be room induced.

[malikarshad]

I don't have anything to do reverse the polarity of the sub. The Speakers are wired correctly Red goes to red and black goes to black.
One thing I'm unsure is setting the speakers to Small or Large.
Its set to large before doing the sub EQ and then after the AS-EQ1 is done I set it to small by setting the crossover in the processor to 80hz.
Although the MultEQ sets the speakers to large and i always set them at 80hz crossover after EQing them.
Do I have to set the crossover to 80hz before EQing it with AS-EQ1?

[Doug McBride]

oddeophile wrote:

Hi, guys. I am new to the forum and just found out about this sub processor. It would help me immensely, being a bit hamfisted and not all that good with computers, if someone would be kind enough to give me a bit of advice on how easy and intuitive it was for them to use the AS-EQ1 software and work through the process. I have two JL Audio F113 subs I need desparately properly EQ in my system. I love them immensely but I never seem to be able to feel I have them fully and properly dialed in. Sound familiar?

Thanks to all and for your patience.

Oddeophile

From what I've read, most folks have found it very straightforward. You might consider downloading a copy of the manual, have a quick read, then post any specific questions.

http://www.svsound.com/manuals/aseq_...1_1_lowres.pdf

Doug

[Doug McBride]

malikarshad wrote:

Yes the after graph by AS-EQ1 was prefectly flat. I'll post that graph later as I don't have access to that graph now.

The before graph(blue-line) is without AS-EQ1 and using the processor built-in Audyssey MultEQ XT. I've also attached the graph (purple line) that shows the graph without any EQ.

• I calibrated the system using MultEQ XT using the patch cable from AS-EQ1 to the processor. MultEQ XT gave a sub level of -1.0 db and distance of 6.4 ft.
• I modifed the sub level to 0 db before taking the measurements with AS-EQ1. Should the level be left at what MultEQ XT calibrated at
• Then I level matched all my speakers & sub(adjusted the gain) at 75db using SubEQ test tones.
• I set the speakers to "Full Band" large.
• Then i calibrated the sub using AS-EQ1
• I got a trim level of -4.1 and distance of 19.3 ft.

I thought the phase is automatically set by AS-EQ1 Do i need to do something different.

Just to clarify and also a few questions:

* When integrating the AS-EQ1 with your Integra, you should be using the Integra's Mic plugged in to the AS-EQ1 and the included patch cable from the AS-EQ1 to the Inegra's Mic input. Before running Audyssey on the Inegra, you should be at the SubEQ screen called "Auto EQ Assist" and have the "On" radio button selected. Sub trim and distance from this step are irrelevant since the results from SubEQ will be used in your Integra after measurements have been taken.

* Sub level in your Integra has no effect on the tones generated by the AS-EQ1 for the sub(s) since that tone is not routed through the AVR or pre/pro.

* When you level matched (now using the Mic included with the AS-EQ1), did you use a multichannel input (with any processing, if any, disabled) on your Integra and adjust the trim levels (not Master Volume) to 75dB? I understand from above you set the sub to 75dB using the gain on the sub.

* Per your previous post, you should have Audyssey in your Integra turned on when doing measurements with the AS-EQ1.

* Is your sub roughly 11 feet from where you originally (first measurement) place the AS-EQ1 Mic? The AS-EQ1 adds about 8.5ms of delay to the signal which adds about 8.5 feet to the distance.

* Trim level and distance should be entered in to your Integra as is, not as an offset from what was already there.

* Phase should be set to 0 before calibrating the sub.

Could you please post your before and after graphs from SUbEQ? You shouldn't be seeing that dip at 35Hz if your Before graphs looks the way you represent it in REW.

Thanks,

Doug

[malikarshad]

Doug McBride wrote:

Could you please post your before and after graphs from SUbEQ? You shouldn't be seeing that dip at 35Hz if your Before graphs looks the way you represent it in REW.

Thanks,

Doug

Doug,
I've attached the PDF of before and after graph of SUB EQ. Surprisingly there is no dip at 35Hz there. It shows up only in REW Graph and i've smoothen the REW graph by 1/3 octave.
To answer your questions

• I've used the correct mics for calibrating processor and AS-EQ1. The Auto-EQ Assist Radio button was turned on while calibrating using MultiEQ on the integra
• After running MultiEQ on Integra I set the master volume to 0db before matching level using SubEQ.
• I used the Multichannel input on the integra to level match the speakers at 75db. In fact I level matched all the speakers to 75db by manually switching the cable on integra to the relevant inputs. The sub was also level matched to 75db using SubEQ test tone by adusting the sub gain. The speaker were level matched using the integra trim level. The master volume was set to 0 db through out the level matching process.
• My Question at this point is should the crossover be set to 80hz in the integra before Measuring the sub.
• I used the Left channel that was set to Full Band in integra to measure the subwoofer. There was no processing enabled whatsoever on the multichannel input.
• SubEQ calculated the trim level of -4.1 and distance of 19.3. The sub is about 11feet physically from the main listening position.
• The Sub phase is set to 0. The sub crossover is disabled. The subsonic filter is set to 20 Hz. There are no ports plugged on the sub.
  
  Given all this I want to understand why there is a dip at 35Hz in the REW graph. JimP suggested to reverse the polarity of sub in the processor but I don't have this option.
  
  I'm happy with the result but I want to make sure I'm getting the best out of AS-EQ1.
  

[CharlieU]

stevefish69 wrote:

I've posted this on AV-Forums where i normally hang out but thought i'd share me experience here too.

Well i've just had an interesting evening. I've always believed that the EQ1 has been setting my Sub channel too low from day 1. It's always told me to set the gain on the back of my Ultra to around 9am which i've done but i always sensed something was wrong. I could never understand how the EQ1 is channel matching the Sub and speakers and yet does not know how high the main channel is in relation to the Sub. All you normally do is adjust the gain on the Sub until it's 75db and then wind the master volume up or down to match.

Today i grabbed out the RS meter and checked and low and behold, the Sub channel appeared to be set around 10db low

I'm not really a believer of the RS meter as it's un-calibrated and i just thought it must be playing up. Surely my state of the art EQ1 could not be that far out.

Whilst PM'ing Ed with my findings i had a bit of a brainwave. I disconnected the Sub from the EQ1 and hooked it into the back of the processor as you would if you were not using an EQ device. I then hooked the OUTPUT of the EQ1 to the 5.1 Bypass Sub Input on the Processor. This is on the same 5.1 bypass that i use for the front left channel. Both signals are now in relation to each other and move up and down together.

I set the master volume so that the Front left was reading 75db and then wound UP the gain on the back of the sub to 10am to get near to it and make remembering the setting easier. I still had to adjust the Sub trim up to +2db to get it exact.

I may have been missing something in the EQ1 manual but i think what i've done makes sense. I swapped all the cables back to normal, put on the THX intro on the Phantom menace and was nearly blown out of the seat. The Pod race scene was back to it's former glory but better with lush textured Bass that i've been missing for so long

I can't believe that no one else has not spotted this problem too. Maybe it's in the manual and i was just being dim and stupid . I've mailed Ed my findings and hopefully he'll post here with some comments.

I'm not certain how your sub could end up low compared to your speakers. At the Level Matching step, I plugged the AS-EQ1 into each of my 5 channel inputs, adjusted the trim level for that channel and verified they all read 75db on the computer, then I did both of my subwoofers, adjusting the gain on the plate amp of the sub to 75db. If you did the same, then all your speakers and sub(s) should have been set to the same level. Also when doing the measurements in each listening position, the AS-EQ1 would send a tone out my center speaker and then out the subs. I can only guess this was checking levels again. Just to be sure, I pulled out the RS meter a few minutes ago and went into speaker settings on my receiver. Using the test tone from the receiver, all speakers and sub channel read the same. It does appear that you have some different inputs on your system. I just used the multi-channel analog inputs on my receiver.

[malikarshad]

malikarshad wrote:

Doug,
I've attached the PDF of before and after graph of SUB EQ. Surprisingly there is no dip at 35Hz there. It shows up only in REW Graph and i've smoothen the REW graph by 1/3 octave.
To answer your questions

• I've used the correct mics for calibrating processor and AS-EQ1. The Auto-EQ Assist Radio button was turned on while calibrating using MultiEQ on the integra
• After running MultiEQ on Integra I set the master volume to 0db before matching level using SubEQ.
• I used the Multichannel input on the integra to level match the speakers at 75db. In fact I level matched all the speakers to 75db by manually switching the cable on integra to the relevant inputs. The sub was also level matched to 75db using SubEQ test tone by adusting the sub gain. The speaker were level matched using the integra trim level. The master volume was set to 0 db through out the level matching process.
• My Question at this point is should the crossover be set to 80hz in the integra before Measuring the sub.
• I used the Left channel that was set to Full Band in integra to measure the subwoofer. There was no processing enabled whatsoever on the multichannel input.
• SubEQ calculated the trim level of -4.1 and distance of 19.3. The sub is about 11feet physically from the main listening position.
• The Sub phase is set to 0. The sub crossover is disabled. The subsonic filter is set to 20 Hz. There are no ports plugged on the sub.
  
  Given all this I want to understand why there is a dip at 35Hz in the REW graph. JimP suggested to reverse the polarity of sub in the processor but I don't have this option.
  
  I'm happy with the result but I want to make sure I'm getting the best out of AS-EQ1.
  

Ok I did some more REW measurements last night. This time i measured Left front, Right Front and center individually.

Left Front - Blue Line
Right Front - Red line
Center - Purple line

If you notice the Right front has a larger dip of approx. -7db at 35Hz compared to left and the center. In fact center has a better curve compared to the fronts.

I used the Left channel when EQing with AS-EQ1.

I always set the crossover to 80Hz for all my speakers in the my Integra processor. I thought the measurement should be identical for all the speakers from 15-80hz but its not the case.
Can somebody please explain why is that?

[JimP]

Is your right speaker near a wall?

Post a photo or a diagram of your room.

[jagman]

Patrick Nevin wrote:

Results

Before
Attachment 14334

After
Attachment 14335

The new curve looks pretty but it killed your low end output. You had a beautiful house curve with the output at 20Hz a few dB hot and solid output down to about 15Hz. Now your response takes a nose dive at 20Hz. The only thing you needed was a 5dB boost at 50Hz. How do low end effects on blockbuster movies sound? Have you noticed a difference? That's great if your happy... I just know I wouldn't want the really deep stuff cut off like that.

[malikarshad]

JimP wrote:

Is your right speaker near a wall?
Post a photo or a diagram of your room.

Here is the photo of front speakers. Yes the right is near the wall.
I have GIK acoustic panels installed in the room. I have 4 bass traps(244) in each corner and one monster trap on the rear walls. The Side walls has 3 traps on each side to catch the reflection.

[Ed Mullen]

Lordoftherings wrote:

Ahhh... Thank you for the correction. Now, that makes more sense. But still, that much of a delay?

Bob

Yes, the latency is a combination of ADC / DAC delay plus the number of samples required by the DSP. If you want more specifics than that, contact Audyssey directly at techsupport@audyssey.com.

[Ed Mullen]

Lordoftherings wrote:

Hey Ed, is there a sale coming soon on this? Summer sale perhaps.

But seriously, I also have two big subs, and it seems to be the ideal solution.

I really appreciate your time and effort to explain very precisely to all members and owners here.
It is done very professionally. And only a true PRO can do this the way you do.

Thank you,

Bob

Thanks, Bob. The AS-EQ1 is on sale right now - pre-order pricing is $699 and this will increase after the second production run is completed. Pre-orders exceeded even our high expectations, and we're holding the pre-order price through the 2nd production run. After that (sometime in August-September probably), the price will go up. Pre-ordering now is a no-risk proposition - all it does is secure your place in line and we don't charge your card until the unit ships, and you can cancel anytime. Ordering later is riskier because you might be into the 3rd production run, and the price might be higher, and you'll be waiting that much longer.

[Ed Mullen]

stevefish69 wrote:

I've posted this on AV-Forums where i normally hang out but thought i'd share me experience here too.

Well i've just had an interesting evening. I've always believed that the EQ1 has been setting my Sub channel too low from day 1. It's always told me to set the gain on the back of my Ultra to around 9am which i've done but i always sensed something was wrong. I could never understand how the EQ1 is channel matching the Sub and speakers and yet does not know how high the main channel is in relation to the Sub. All you normally do is adjust the gain on the Sub until it's 75db and then wind the master volume up or down to match.

Today i grabbed out the RS meter and checked and low and behold, the Sub channel appeared to be set around 10db low

I'm not really a believer of the RS meter as it's un-calibrated and i just thought it must be playing up. Surely my state of the art EQ1 could not be that far out.

Whilst PM'ing Ed with my findings i had a bit of a brainwave. I disconnected the Sub from the EQ1 and hooked it into the back of the processor as you would if you were not using an EQ device. I then hooked the OUTPUT of the EQ1 to the 5.1 Bypass Sub Input on the Processor. This is on the same 5.1 bypass that i use for the front left channel. Both signals are now in relation to each other and move up and down together.

I set the master volume so that the Front left was reading 75db and then wound UP the gain on the back of the sub to 10am to get near to it and make remembering the setting easier. I still had to adjust the Sub trim up to +2db to get it exact.

I may have been missing something in the EQ1 manual but i think what i've done makes sense. I swapped all the cables back to normal, put on the THX intro on the Phantom menace and was nearly blown out of the seat. The Pod race scene was back to it's former glory but better with lush textured Bass that i've been missing for so long

I can't believe that no one else has not spotted this problem too. Maybe it's in the manual and i was just being dim and stupid . I've mailed Ed my findings and hopefully he'll post here with some comments.

The master volume should not be adjusted during the level matching process. It should be set to 0 or to whatever the default reference level calibration setting is.

Connect the AS-EQ1 to a multi-channel speaker input, run the test tone, and adjust the TRIM level for that speaker channel until it reads 75 dB. Repeat for all other speaker channels.

Make note of all trim settings and migrate them to the digital inputs trim menu, if it is separate and independent from the analog multi-channel input (some AVRs have two completely independent sets of trim controls for analog/digital inputs). That could be where your problem was occuring.

Run the subwoofer tone and adjust the gain on the plate amp until the subwoofer reads 75 dB. Then run the EQ routine. If you want to run the subwoofer hotter afterward, that is OK.

[Ed Mullen]

malikarshad wrote:

Doug,
I've attached the PDF of before and after graph of SUB EQ. Surprisingly there is no dip at 35Hz there. It shows up only in REW Graph and i've smoothen the REW graph by 1/3 octave.
To answer your questions

• I've used the correct mics for calibrating processor and AS-EQ1. The Auto-EQ Assist Radio button was turned on while calibrating using MultiEQ on the integra
• After running MultiEQ on Integra I set the master volume to 0db before matching level using SubEQ.
• I used the Multichannel input on the integra to level match the speakers at 75db. In fact I level matched all the speakers to 75db by manually switching the cable on integra to the relevant inputs. The sub was also level matched to 75db using SubEQ test tone by adusting the sub gain. The speaker were level matched using the integra trim level. The master volume was set to 0 db through out the level matching process.
• My Question at this point is should the crossover be set to 80hz in the integra before Measuring the sub.
• I used the Left channel that was set to Full Band in integra to measure the subwoofer. There was no processing enabled whatsoever on the multichannel input.
• SubEQ calculated the trim level of -4.1 and distance of 19.3. The sub is about 11feet physically from the main listening position.
• The Sub phase is set to 0. The sub crossover is disabled. The subsonic filter is set to 20 Hz. There are no ports plugged on the sub.
  
  Given all this I want to understand why there is a dip at 35Hz in the REW graph. JimP suggested to reverse the polarity of sub in the processor but I don't have this option.
  
  I'm happy with the result but I want to make sure I'm getting the best out of AS-EQ1.
  

"I've used the correct mics for calibrating processor and AS-EQ1. The Auto-EQ Assist Radio button was turned on while calibrating using MultiEQ on the integra."

Correct.

"After running MultiEQ on Integra I set the master volume to 0db before matching level using SubEQ."

Correct.

"I used the Multichannel input on the integra to level match the speakers at 75db. In fact I level matched all the speakers to 75db by manually switching the cable on integra to the relevant inputs. The sub was also level matched to 75db using SubEQ test tone by adusting the sub gain."

Correct.

"The speaker were level matched using the integra trim level. The master volume was set to 0 db through out the level matching process."

Correct.

"My Question at this point is should the crossover be set to 80hz in the integra before Measuring the sub."

The crossover setting in the AVR is not relevant when the AS-EQ1 measures the subwoofer, as the AS-EQ1 should be directly connected to the subwoofer input and not the AVR.

"I used the Left channel that was set to Full Band in integra to measure the subwoofer. There was no processing enabled whatsoever on the multichannel input."

This procedure is incorrect. The AS-EQ1 subwoofer output should not be connected to anything on the AVR. It should be connected directly to the subwoofer input.

"SubEQ calculated the trim level of -4.1 and distance of 19.3. The sub is about 11feet physically from the main listening position."

That may change if you re-run with the AS-EQ1 connected directly to the subwoofer.

"The Sub phase is set to 0. The sub crossover is disabled. The subsonic filter is set to 20 Hz. There are no ports plugged on the sub."

Please plug one port on the subwoofer. Running with all ports open and the tune switch set to 20 Hz is a mismatch and can damage the woofers. That is also why your FR is rolling off earlier after the AS-EQ1.

"Given all this I want to understand why there is a dip at 35Hz in the REW graph. JimP suggested to reverse the polarity of sub in the processor but I don't have this option."

I'm not certain at this point whether you are measuring the FR of the subwoofer or the speakers. If you measure the FR of the subwoofer only, the test rig should be connected directly to the subwoofer.

If you want to measure the FR of the speakers and subwoofer combined, then you'll need to connect the test rig to the AVR with the speakers set to Small. This may cause some phase anomalies between the speaker and subwoofer which cannot be fully resolved with just the distance controls, and could create a dip in the combined FR at some point in the pass band.

[stevefish69]

Ed Mullen wrote:

The master volume should not be adjusted during the level matching process. It should be set to 0 or to whatever the default reference level calibration setting is.

Connect the AS-EQ1 to a multi-channel speaker input, run the test tone, and adjust the TRIM level for that speaker channel until it reads 75 dB. Repeat for all other speaker channels.

Make note of all trim settings and migrate them to the digital inputs trim menu, if it is separate and independent from the analog multi-channel input (some AVRs have two completely independent sets of trim controls for analog/digital inputs). That could be where your problem was occuring.

Run the subwoofer tone and adjust the gain on the plate amp until the subwoofer reads 75 dB. Then run the EQ routine. If you want to run the subwoofer hotter afterward, that is OK.

Sorry to be a pain in the backside. My Processor does NOT allow channel trimming of the Left channel (See page 10 of manual). This channel level is fixed, you then adjust the volume to get 75db (Which is -11db on the master volume) and then adjust the trim on all other channels to suit. The manual of the Audiolab even states to adjust the volume until the left channel outputs 75db and then to match all other speakers. There is no reference output as such.

What i'm trying to get at is that if the EQ1 is presuming the master volume is at 0db (as per the manual) when it outputs it's tone to get 75db, it's not. It actually 11db lower on the volume pot. If the volume is turned up to 0db, then and only then will the Sub be outputting the required voltage to match the fronts. Surely then the mains will be 11db higher than the Sub.

I know the Sub channel was set too low as with a pretty meaty film running, the driver was hardly moving to touch, let alone being heard even if the power amps were switched off.

Once again, sorry to be a pain, but i think it's my poxy Processor throwing a spanner in the works.

[malikarshad]

Ed Mullen wrote:

"I used the Left channel that was set to Full Band in integra to measure the subwoofer. There was no processing enabled whatsoever on the multichannel input."
This procedure is incorrect. The AS-EQ1 subwoofer output should not be connected to anything on the AVR. It should be connected directly to the subwoofer input.

Ed can you please clarify these points.
*When level matching at 75 db using AS-EQ1 mic I connect the AS-EQ1 center/sat to the left channel multichannel input of processor.
*At this point should I remove the center/sat cable. Should the Sub A input to AS-EQ1 from the processor preout be removed as well?
*Also when level matching the Sub the only connection should be from AS-EQ1 SubA output to subwoofer input? Correct?
*And while meaursing the Sub should there be only one connection? AS-EQ1 output to Subwoofer input and all other connection from AVR removed.

Thanks Ed for taking time to respond.

[Doug McBride]

stevefish69 wrote:

Sorry to be a pain in the backside. My Processor does NOT allow channel trimming of the Left channel (See page 10 of manual). This channel level is fixed, you then adjust the volume to get 75db (Which is -11db on the master volume) and then adjust the trim on all other channels to suit. The manual of the Audiolab even states to adjust the volume until the left channel outputs 75db and then to match all other speakers. There is no reference output as such.

What i'm trying to get at is that if the EQ1 is presuming the master volume is at 0db (as per the manual) when it outputs it's tone to get 75db, it's not. It actually 11db lower on the volume pot. If the volume is turned up to 0db, then and only then will the Sub be outputting the required voltage to match the fronts. Surely then the mains will be 11db higher than the Sub.

I know the Sub channel was set too low as with a pretty meaty film running, the driver was hardly moving to touch, let alone being heard even if the power amps were switched off.

Once again, sorry to be a pain, but i think it's my poxy Processor throwing a spanner in the works.

As far as the setting of the Master Volume, the manual states " Adjust the master volume of the AVR or Pre/Pro to the “Reference Calibration Level.” This is typically “0.0 dB,” but check the AVR or Pre/Pro owners manual, since this is often not the reference level; or recall how you calibrated to be sure."

If you are setting your MV to 0 and reference is really at -10 or -11, and calibrated the sub to 75dB using the AS-EQ1, that would probably explain the 10dB difference since your mains are now at ~85dB. The key here is "typically" but not always on the ref MV level.

Cheers,

Doug

[stevefish69]

Doug McBride wrote:

If you are setting your MV to 0 and reference is really at -10 or -11, and calibrated the sub to 75dB using the AS-EQ1, that would probably explain the 10dB difference since your mains are now at ~85dB. The key here is "typically" but not always on the ref MV level.

Ta Doug

Finally someone has an understanding one where i'm coming from.

If the mains are at 85db and the Sub is at 75db then this is why my loss of impact / Pressurization has disappeared.

What this does mean is that i must be going deaf as most films are watched at -5db which is actually +5db above reference (Presuming Ref level is actually -11db on my pro)

[Ed Mullen]

stevefish69 wrote:

Sorry to be a pain in the backside. My Processor does NOT allow channel trimming of the Left channel (See page 10 of manual). This channel level is fixed, you then adjust the volume to get 75db (Which is -11db on the master volume) and then adjust the trim on all other channels to suit. The maunal of the Audiolab even states to adjust the volume until the left channel outputs 75db and then to match all other speakers. There is no reference output as such.

What i'm trying to get at is that if the EQ1 is presuming the master volume is at 0db (as per the manual) when it outputs it's tone to get 75db, it's not. It actually 11db lower on the volume pot. If the volume is turned up to 0db, then and only then will the Sub be outputting the required voltage to match the fronts. Surely then the mains will be 11db higher than the Sub.

I know the Sub channel was set too low as with a pretty meaty film running, the driver was hardly moving to touch, let alone being heard even if the power amps were switched off.

Once again, sorry to be a pain, but i think it's my poxy Processor throwing a spanner in the works.

Adjusting your master volume as stated above (to -11 so the L channel reads 75 dB) is perfectly fine. Then adjust all other trim levels so they are 75 dB also. Then adjust the subwoofer gain so it is also 75 dB.

After the EQ routine, the AS-EQ1 will provide you with a subwoofer trim setting. This setting is absolute (not relative to any pre-EQ value); just input the value in the AVR. Ditto for the distance setting.

The AS-EQ1 doesn't presume a given master volume setting. The master volume is a global gain control which affects all channels equally. If the speakers are subwoofer are level matched at one master volume setting (which you did), then they will be level matched at all master volume settings.

The reason we use 75 dB, is because that is what the AS-EQ1 needs in order to properly EQ the subwoofer without running into clipping/gain problems in the digital domain. And that's why any post-EQ subwoofer trim level recommendations are generally pretty small if the level matching step was performed correctly.

Regardless, if you perform the level matching step properly, and then independently check the calibration levels with the AVR test tones and an RS SPL meter and discover the subwoofer is running 10 dB lower than the speakers, then something else is wrong in the AVR set-up or trim level menu (possibly you have dual sets of trim levels - one analog and one digital), because the level matching step in the AS-EQ1 manual isn't flawed.

[Doug McBride]

malikarshad wrote:

Ed can you please clarify these points.
*When level matching at 75 db using AS-EQ1 mic I connect the AS-EQ1 center/sat to the left channel multichannel input of processor.
*At this point should I remove the center/sat cable. Should the Sub A input to AS-EQ1 from the processor preout be removed as well?
*Also when level matching the Sub the only connection should be from AS-EQ1 SubA output to subwoofer input? Correct?
*And while meaursing the Sub should there be only one connection? AS-EQ1 output to Subwoofer input and all other connection from AVR removed.

Thanks Ed for taking time to respond.

I'm not Ed (I also don't play him on TV) but would like to help...

*When level matching at 75 db using AS-EQ1 mic I connect the AS-EQ1 center/sat to the left channel multichannel input of processor.

Fine

*At this point should I remove the center/sat cable. Should the Sub A input to AS-EQ1 from the processor preout be removed as well?

Leave both hooked up. During measurement, the AS-EQ1 will send tones to your Left/Center channel as well as the Sub(s). The Sub A input from your processor is not used at this time, but it needs to be hooked up eventually.

*Also when level matching the Sub the only connection should be from AS-EQ1 SubA output to subwoofer input? Correct?

Yes, but you should also have your Sat Output from the AS-EQ1 hooked to your Left or Center multichannel input on your AVR. I think you meant that but wanted to amke sure.

*And while meaursing the Sub should there be only one connection? AS-EQ1 output to Subwoofer input and all other connection from AVR removed.

The connection diagram for Level Matching and Measurement is on Page 22 of the Operator Manual. When measuring, just as in level setting, both the Sub(s) and the Sat (left/Center) should be hooked up.

Going back to your dip at 35Hz, can you run REW with just the sub attached to take the mains out of the measurement? Also, any chance of sliding that beast to another spot to see how that affects the result?

Doug

[malikarshad]

Ed Mullen wrote:

Regardless, if you perform the level matching step properly, and then independently check the calibration levels with the AVR test tones and an RS SPL meter and discover the subwoofer is running 10 dB lower than the speakers, then something else is wrong in the AVR set-up or trim level menu (possibly you have dual sets of trim levels - one analog and one digital), because the level matching step in the AS-EQ1 manual isn't flawed.

This is exactly what I'm experiencing too. When I check the levels with RS meter all the channels are level matched at 72db but the subwoofer is off by about -8db.

Doug saw your post after i replied on this.
I'll try to take a REW of only Sub connected.

[stevefish69]

Ed Mullen wrote:

The AS-EQ1 doesn't presume a given master volume setting. The master volume is a global gain control which affects all channels equally. If the speakers are subwoofer are level matched at one master volume setting (which you did), then they will be level matched at all master volume settings.


Regardless, if you perform the level matching step properly, and then independently check the calibration levels with the AVR test tones and an RS SPL meter and discover the subwoofer is running 10 dB lower than the speakers, then something else is wrong in the AVR set-up or trim level menu (possibly you have dual sets of trim levels - one analog and one digital), because the level matching step in the AS-EQ1 manual isn't flawed.

This is also assuming that if 1.2v (for instance) goes into the Processor from the EQ1 at -11db MV to make 75db that 1.2v will be output to all channels too at the same MV when running normally.

There are two sets of trim levels on my AP, but all trim levels are within 1-2db on both analogue and digital domain. Could it be something to do with the dreaded -10db LFE channel thingy.

If i don't get it sorted (and know it's technically correct) then TBH i may go back to using a BFD, flog the EQ1 and have a holiday in the sun instead

[Ed Mullen]

stevefish69 wrote:

Ta Doug

Finally someone has an understanding one where i'm coming from.

If the mains are at 85db and the Sub is at 75db then this is why my loss of impact / Pressurization has disappeared.

What this does mean is that i must be going deaf as most films are watched at -5db which is actually +5db above reference (Presuming Ref level is actually -11db on my pro)

This theory and line of thinking is not correct - please see my above post. If you performed the level matching step correctly, then the subwoofer and speakers will be level matched at all master volume settings, not just one. Something else is going on with the AVR set-up menu if - after level matching - your subwoofer is independently proven to be running 10 dB cooler than the speaker channels.