The astounding new AS-EQ1 SubEQ goes on sale!

[Ed Mullen]

BigPines wrote:

That is hilarious because I do the same thing. ...and I thought I was being deviously clever.

I just figure nobody else in the room will appreciate it as much as I do so my listening position should get twice the weight. Of course, I don't mention this little trick to anybody in the family...

Mike

Right on, brother. It's good to be the king (of at least one thing anyway).

[stevefish69]

My EQ1 arrived today (In London )

Ed - I wonder if you could help out to see if i've set up my EQ1 correctly

Initial impressions are pretty good. I have no idea how this unit has done it but, but the complete soundstage has improved 10 fold. The fronts and rears seem to have moved out of the room big time, and have an amazing sense of depth that i've never managed to get on my equipment before. The pans, and swings from front to rear are now seemless and i still cannot see how just be EQ'ing and time aligning the Sub this can be done

I will probably try another set of readings when i have more time, with maybe a few less readings. My only concern is that I've lost a lot of the chest impact that used to be had, but seeing how high my Sub channel was actually set in comparision to my mains was a interesting to say the least. IIRC when th emain channel was producing 75db the Sub channel was pumping out about 90db

My PCU used to be set to 12 o'clock gain and the Audiolab to +4db on the sub trim. This has now dropped to 9 o'clock and -1.5db trim to give the ruler flat response.

Now if i knock the Sub channel up a notch again and run it hot (although not 15db :grin i'm wondering whether this immense change to the other speakers will dissapear as the mains will be running lower than the Sub. The PCU still dug nice and low when needed, but just in a more lifelike manner than i'm used to.

The one thing thats confusing for me is that when doing the channel level matching it says to set the master volume to 0db and then adjust the individual trim level down until you reach 75db. The Poxy Audiolab AP does not allow you to alter the trim of the left channel. You can only move the other levels up / down to suit. On the Audiolab the master volume on the fixed left input needed to be at -12db to get 75db. I then adjusted the gain on the back of the sub down to 9 o'clock to match the 75db. At the end of the calibration, it aksed me to reduce the sub trim by a further -1.75 on the AP. DOes this mean that reference level on the AP is actually -12db

[Sonnie]

That is no fair...

However, I suppose congratulations are in order

[CharlieU]

Steve,

Are you running a 15Hz tune on your PC13-Ultra? From the first graph, it looks like you put some work into getting the sub right before getting the EQ1. In any case, the second graph is beautiful. Thanks for taking the time to post your results.

[stevefish69]

CharlieU wrote:

Steve,

Are you running a 15Hz tune on your PC13-Ultra? From the first graph, it looks like you put some work into getting the sub right before getting the EQ1. In any case, the second graph is beautiful. Thanks for taking the time to post your results.

Hi ya,

Yes the Sub is being run in 15hz tune. It's in the front corner of the room and is the third and best position i could find for it using REW.

I will eventually (when i get time to fart) get some REW sweeps done. I'd like to be able to show the following.

Old results with BFD
Sub and mains together with no EQ
Sub and mains together with EQ1 recommended settings and gain set to 9 o'clock
Sub and mains together with EQ1 setup but sub gain back to 12 o'clock gain

Regards

Steve

[markus76]

Hi,

although the AS-EQ1 sounds promising it has a fundamental flaw—to have the subwoofers calibrated, the mains need be part of the calibration procedure. Otherwise the whole frequency range where subs and mains cross over will be uncorrected. I've searched the AS-EQ1 manual but couldn't find any way to make the mains part of the calibration. A simpel level match of mains and subs won't do the trick.

Best, Markus

[Ed Mullen]

markus76 wrote:

Hi,

although the AS-EQ1 sounds promising it has a fundamental flaw—to have the subwoofers calibrated, the mains need be part of the calibration procedure. Otherwise the whole frequency range where subs and mains cross over will be uncorrected. I've searched the AS-EQ1 manual but couldn't find any way to make the mains part of the calibration. A simpel level match of mains and subs won't do the trick.

Best, Markus

I'm not sure I understand your statement, but the product is not "fundamentally flawed". That's a pretty strong statement. I will help you work through any setup issues and answer any questions you may have about the unit.

[markus76]

Hello Ed,

in the modal region we won't be able to make assumptions on how mains and subs will cross over. I'd like to direct everybody that is interested in the topic to the scientific work of Todd Welti:
http://www.aes.org/e-lib/download.cf...80&name=harman

Best, Markus

[Sonnie]

Fundamentally flawed...





I'd rather believe that someone has fundamentally flawed eyes.

[Ed Mullen]

stevefish69 wrote:

My EQ1 arrived today (In London )

Ed - I wonder if you could help out to see if i've set up my EQ1 correctly

Initial impressions are pretty good. I have no idea how this unit has done it but, but the complete soundstage has improved 10 fold. The fronts and rears seem to have moved out of the room big time, and have an amazing sense of depth that i've never managed to get on my equipment before. The pans, and swings from front to rear are now seemless and i still cannot see how just be EQ'ing and time aligning the Sub this can be done

I will probably try another set of readings when i have more time, with maybe a few less readings. My only concern is that I've lost a lot of the chest impact that used to be had, but seeing how high my Sub channel was actually set in comparision to my mains was a interesting to say the least. IIRC when th emain channel was producing 75db the Sub channel was pumping out about 90db

My PCU used to be set to 12 o'clock gain and the Audiolab to +4db on the sub trim. This has now dropped to 9 o'clock and -1.5db trim to give the ruler flat response.

Now if i knock the Sub channel up a notch again and run it hot (although not 15db :grin i'm wondering whether this immense change to the other speakers will dissapear as the mains will be running lower than the Sub. The PCU still dug nice and low when needed, but just in a more lifelike manner than i'm used to.

The one thing thats confusing for me is that when doing the channel level matching it says to set the master volume to 0db and then adjust the individual trim level down until you reach 75db. The Poxy Audiolab AP does not allow you to alter the trim of the left channel. You can only move the other levels up / down to suit. On the Audiolab the master volume on the fixed left input needed to be at -12db to get 75db. I then adjusted the gain on the back of the sub down to 9 o'clock to match the 75db. At the end of the calibration, it aksed me to reduce the sub trim by a further -1.75 on the AP. DOes this mean that reference level on the AP is actually -12db

Thanks for the positive feedback on the AS-EQ1. The 10-fold improvement in sound stage resulted from 2 things - running the subwoofer calibration level flat/even with the speakers, and 2) the perfectly flat FR you have now achieved.

You lost that chest impact because it trimmed about 5 dB off a 5 dB peak centered at ~35 Hz. The sound is more accurate now (as you noted), but will take an adjustment period. You can run the subwoofer calibration level a little hotter, but eventually (as you fear) the sound stage will collapse and the subwoofer will start to dominate and become localized. A flat/even calibration level with the mains is the best way to keep the subwoofer blending seamless and non-localized.

The level matching feature is important for the exact reasons you cited - you were running the subwoofer about 15 dB hot. Simply correcting for FR is not enough - it also need to be level-matched with the front stage speakers.

To answer your question a -12 dB master volume setting does not necessarily mean that is now Dolby Reference Level (although it could be). It was simply the master volume required to get your left channel (which has no trim control) to 75 dB with the voltage input from the AS-EQ1. Then you adjusted all your other speakers and the subwoofer to that reference point.

The fact that DVDs have mastering/encoding levels which vary considerably makes moot the whole concept of achieving Dolby Reference Level at any given master volume anyway. Play Star Wars I and Star Wars II at the same master volume setting and you'll immediately notice SW II is much louder. Ditto for Sea Biscuit and Underworld (the latter being extremely loud at -13 and the former being comfortable at -5). Throw in DTS tracks which lack dial norm and which are typically mastered 4 dB louder anyway, and you have an 8 dB disparity in bass peaks between Master & Commander cannon blasts on DD vs. DTS at the same master volume setting.

So in the end, don't worry about achieving Dolby Reference Level at any given master volume setting, because the varying encoding levels on DVDs pretty much throws that right out the window. Instead, just set the master volume at a comfortable level for any given DVD and sound format and be happy.