The astounding new AS-EQ1 SubEQ goes on sale!

[aNomad]

NCDave wrote:

Just to clarify, then: there is no way to enter a "house curve"?

I am continually amazed at what people think is "affordable." Maybe there are AS-EQ1 giveaways in the new Big Bill.

Looks very nice, though.

"AS-EQ1 giveaways in the new big bill" LOL

[aNomad]

Ed Mullen wrote:

If you place the AS-EQ1 in external calibration mode, you connect your Pio MCACC mic to the AS-EQ1. It will pass through the mic connection to your AVR mic input. You also connect your subwoofer output jack to the AS-EQ1.

The mic jacks on the AS-EQ1 will function as a pass through for all MCACC calibration pings, save for the subwoofer. When it pings the subwoofer, the AS-EQ1 will not allow the signal to pass to the subwoofer. Instead it routes the signal back to your Pio mic input. So the Pio will detect a subwoofer, but it will not build a correction file or distance file for it. The AS-EQ1 will do that for you during the EQ routine, and it will give you the correct subwoofer distance to input into your Pio.

Ed,

I have done many an acoustic correction in my day, and my experience tells me that you can only delay signals to match distances, you cant make them come out sooner. There should only be one channel which has no delay (the furthest) unless lip sync is an issue. If the "ping" from the MCACC which is meant for the woofer goes directly to the Pio mic input, it will "think" the response is flat, but it will sense no delay, therefore the Pio will think the woofer is infinitely close. Under that circumstance, I would think the Pioneer would give the woofer a large delay to match the furthest full range channel.

Also, I have heard how the Audy sets the proper eq for every seat. How can it do this with only a few subs? By definition, the sound will be different in different places, unless every seat has a sub.

[Scott_R_K]

Ed ,

I've checked the SV Sound Web Site but can't find an option yet to download the Operator's Manual . Is it too early for such a thing ?

Scott................

[Sonnie]

Stay tuned right here at the Shack for the giveaway...

What else would you expect...

[JimP]

aNomad wrote:

Ed,

I have done many an acoustic correction in my day, and my experience tells me that you can only delay signals to match distances, you cant make them come out sooner. There should only be one channel which has no delay (the furthest) unless lip sync is an issue. If the "ping" from the MCACC which is meant for the woofer goes directly to the Pio mic input, it will "think" the response is flat, but it will sense no delay, therefore the Pio will think the woofer is infinitely close. Under that circumstance, I would think the Pioneer would give the woofer a large delay to match the furthest full range channel.

Also, I have heard how the Audy sets the proper eq for every seat. How can it do this with only a few subs? By definition, the sound will be different in different places, unless every seat has a sub.

I believe Ed has already answered that. You might want to go back and reread his post.

[Ed Mullen]

pietsch288 wrote:

I might as well give er a try also.....with 45 day trial I cant go wrong!!!! Any kind of return customer discount??????

No additional discounts at the pre-order price; our backs are to the wall at $699. After the pre-order phase ends, returning customers will get 5% off MSRP, which is $40 - not bad, but not as nice as $100.

[Ed Mullen]

aNomad wrote:

Ed,

I have done many an acoustic correction in my day, and my experience tells me that you can only delay signals to match distances, you cant make them come out sooner. There should only be one channel which has no delay (the furthest) unless lip sync is an issue. If the "ping" from the MCACC which is meant for the woofer goes directly to the Pio mic input, it will "think" the response is flat, but it will sense no delay, therefore the Pio will think the woofer is infinitely close. Under that circumstance, I would think the Pioneer would give the woofer a large delay to match the furthest full range channel.

Also, I have heard how the Audy sets the proper eq for every seat. How can it do this with only a few subs? By definition, the sound will be different in different places, unless every seat has a sub.

Right - the key at the External Calibration phase is to prevent the AVR from building an EQ file for the subwoofer. The distance it calculates is not relevant, as that will be manually inputted by the user after the AS-EQ1 measures the acoustic distance + its own latency and provides the correct distance setting.

The concept of distance settings is indeed confusing to many enthusiasts and you are exactly correct - everything revolves around the speaker channel which physically takes the longest to reach the mic. Everything else (which would otherwise reach the mic sooner) is delayed accordingly so they all arrive at the mic (or listener as it were) at the same time.

No device can provide the same FR at all listening positions; that is physically impossible. The strength of MultEQ XT is the adaptive algorithms (call it fuzzy logic) which looks at all the data from every mic location and develops a correction curve which will optimize the response at all seats without trashing it at any seat. Yes, this ultimately can be called a compromise, but the Audyssey adaptive algorithms are far better at this daunting task than any other similar device I've tested, much less trying to accomplish it with a PEQ manually, which is an exercise in frustration.

[aNomad]

Ok, thanks Ed.

Given the fuzzy logic, does it make sense to measure as many as 32 mic positions? It seems like the more positions analyzed, the more compromise must be made. What is the recommended number of measurement positions?

[JimP]

What is the minimum number of seats that should be measured?

[Sonnie]

Measure no more than what you absolutely have to. I only measured my main listening position in my last theater because I was about the only one that ever really used it that much. My daughter and her friends wouldn't know any different.

[JimP]

Hi Sonnie. How's your new theater coming?

Reason for asking about the minimum number of readings is at least one receiver, Onkyo 806, says to do a minimum of 3. It turned out that you should do a minimum of 6. Didn't know if this device also had a minimum number of readings.

In your situation, I'd take all the required readings from the same spot.

[jpk]

Hi,
I'm close to pulling the trigger for one of these. I'm wondering if it's going to do that much more than say the new Sherwood or Outlaw units coming out with Trinnov Optimizer. Thoughts, comments?
Thanks,
Joe

[Sonnie]

JimP wrote:

Hi Sonnie. How's your new theater coming?

Reason for asking about the minimum number of readings is at least one receiver, Onkyo 806, says to do a minimum of 3. It turned out that you should do a minimum of 6. Didn't know if this device also had a minimum number of readings.

In your situation, I'd take all the required readings from the same spot.

Theater is about 1/3 done. We are headed to Pigeon Forge tomorrow thru Monday, so it will get a break and so will I. I fooled with the riser all day today.

Yes... my 805 requires a minimum of 3 measurements, of which I do all three in the same location. I once did one from my left ear, one from my nose and the other from my right ear.

I will probably try all of the seating locations and then just the main position... then compare all the seating positions and see what it looks like.

[JimP]

Sonnie,

Don't know if the same problem found on the 806 also applies to the 805, but you might want to try taking 6 measurements and see how that affects the response curve. I probably wouldn't bother moving the mic.

With the 805, were you still using a BFG and REW for subwoofer frequencies?

[Ed Mullen]

aNomad wrote:

Ok, thanks Ed.

Given the fuzzy logic, does it make sense to measure as many as 32 mic positions? It seems like the more positions analyzed, the more compromise must be made. What is the recommended number of measurement positions?

What I have settled on is a high/low head position (to account for varying heights and slouch of listeners) in each theater chair, and then I remeasure my own chair at the end of the session to weight/skew the response a bit for the sweet spot.

The minimum number of measurements is three (3), but typically you'll end-up running 8-10 locations if you follow the above guidance and you have 3-4 theater seats.

Some theaters are larger though - say two rows of four seats each, so you can easily get up into the teens for measurements.

Or you can simply measure in a single location three times and move on if you're the only one who listens in the theater and you simply want to optimize the sweet spot. It does defeat the purpose of the fuzzy logic adaptive algorithms, but the choice/decision is completely yours.

[cinema mad]

Chris founder & CTO of Audyssey stated in the Audyssey forum on AVS, Its recommended to not leave the mic in one position rather take one at the main seating position and at least move the mic left and right of your (head) seating position but more mic positions the better...

Here is the Audyssey set up Guide inc recommended mic positions for Audyssey multEQ XT

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...5#post14456895

Cheers....

[pietsch288]

hey Ed.....does the eq unit "seperatly" eq 2 subs or does it just set phase/polarity of each sub and then eq globely???

[Ed Mullen]

pietsch288 wrote:

hey Ed.....does the eq unit "seperatly" eq 2 subs or does it just set phase/polarity of each sub and then eq globely???

Your choice - there is a dual combined mode, and a dual discrete mode. I recommend dual combined mode for most installations, as the combined effect of the dual subwoofers interacting is what you ultimately want to EQ.

It does EQ both subwoofers separately, though, even in dual combined mode.

[Sonnie]

JimP wrote:

Sonnie,

With the 805, were you still using a BFG and REW for subwoofer frequencies?

Not in the great room, no. Just the 805 for now, but that setup is temporary anyway. The sub I am using in the great room will be moved to the HT room where the AS-EQ1 will assume duties for equalizing it.

[pietsch288]

any reviews of this unit anywhere????

[Ed Mullen]

pietsch288 wrote:

any reviews of this unit anywhere????

The unit is still in production. We'll be getting some production samples air-shipped to SVS before the main shipment arrives by slow-boat, and we'll be getting at least one unit out for an early review.

[robbroy]

pietsch288 wrote:

any reviews of this unit anywhere????

It's not really a review, but when I had the AS-EQ1 in my room for a day it was much (and I mean MUCH) easier and faster to setup than my Rane or the BFD I had once upon a time, and it did a better job than I did as well. I did not keep the before and after measurements, but they were impressive to say the least.

-Robb

[JimP]

I think the big question for a lot of us is if we use REW and either a BFG, SMS-1 or other equilizer and do it well, then how much of a difference would we have when compared to the AS-EQ1. I understand the filters are different which seems like it would be a major plus but I don't really know that for sure. On the other hand, forget house curves and multiple memories which is for some of us is important.

[vdorta]

Ed Mullen wrote:

The AS-EQ1 has dual subwoofer feeds and it can be programmed for either dual mono or dual discrete.

I guess "dual discrete" means "stereo" in layman's terminology?

[aNomad]

JimP wrote:

On the other hand, forget house curves and multiple memories which is for some of us is important.

Just curious, how do you create the house curve now, and what is it?