Trying to justify ordering a 2nd pb13 ultra

**Dwight Angus** · **06-25-09, 05:48 PM**

My sealed HT is 3900 cubic feet and I want to upgrade my subs. Currently I have 2 Paradigm pw2100's. I will replace these subs with one PB-13 ultra plus the as-eq1. Now thinking about a 2nd PB-13 ultra colocated. Can someone tell what I will hear differently vs 1 ultra. The reviews I have read about this sub are amazing but also read about the benefits of 2 ultras. I am a little unsure as to whether the 2nd ultra is worth the cost and looking for some justification to purchase the 2nd one that I perhaps overlooked.

fyi- The subs will be used exclusively for movies.

cheers
Dwight

**tonyvdb** · **06-25-09, 05:58 PM**

Having two PB13u' s will smooth out the bass response throughout the room plus it will give you more headroom for thous really tough movies like WOTW.

**Sonnie** · **06-25-09, 05:59 PM**

I had one PC-13 Ultra and added a second. Actually I purchased both at the same time, but listened to one before listening to two (or was that with my PB12-Plus/2 subs

) ... uhgh... what a memory. I think I did this both occasions.

I am a movie guy myself, with the occasional concert DVD, but very little CD listening. My room was smaller, but two subs pressurized the room and made for a more exciting experience. The impact was greater. I did not notice it being any louder because I only turned it up so far regardless. There is a sense of effortless extension with a pair vs one, although they may have been all in my head.

How about this... one will do great... two will do more great!

EDIT: Oh yeah... instead of co-locating them, try placing one in front and one in back, varying the phase and x-over points. This helped me smooth out my response in my room after much experimentation.

**Dwight Angus** · **06-25-09, 06:17 PM**

Thanks Tony
I guess it also further supports the as-eq1 purchase given it supports more than 1 sub in smoothing out bass response.

Appreciate the input

**Thunderheader** · **06-26-09, 08:38 AM**

Hey Dwight,

I think the justification is that you really want to have another Ultra, and what it will sound like but you know it will probably be better. I myself ordered my second PB13-Ultra then I ordered a third in the form of a PC13-Ultra, then I figured why not have multiples because I really like that. Now I am just waiting for my second PC13-Ultra for a total of 4!! It sounds great with 3 and I really enjoy the headroom.

**tpaxadpom** · **07-04-09, 05:20 PM**

One thing to remember is that adding a second sub will complicate the adjustment process. If you listen to a lot of music it will be very obvious when one sub lead another one (which is typically the case with front and rear sub placement unless you have some means to control group delay). Not many AV processors allow to adjust group delay for each sub separately. Getting flattest FR isn't the only thing you should be concerned with. From my personal experiece it's a lot easier to integrate single sub into the system vs multiple subs.

**XxxBERRYxxX** · **07-15-09, 10:19 AM**

I can't even imagine what two "ultras" would be like in the same room. I have two 20-39's and I worry that my drywall is going to crack under the amount of air they move and thats only 650 watts combined! My neighbors wouldn't like me getting "ultras", I know that!

**cstory** · **07-15-09, 02:14 PM**

I too am on the fence concerning the addition of another Ultra to my theater/stereo, but in my case I would be adding a PC-13Ultra to a PC-12 Ultra.

The main reason I want to do this, is to help smooth out the response in the room, which is irregularly shaped. My main concern is are there sound quality issues with mixing two different subs. Yeah, they are the same company, but by all accounts, the Ultra13 sounds different from the Ultra 12.

I spend at least half the time with the system listening to music, either stereo or multichannel SACD. (using Marantz AV-8003) I hope to place each of the two subs next to the two main front speakers (Martin Logan Vista's), and am thinking about using the speaker level inputs on the two subs so that I can run them in stereo. With one main speaker and the current PC-Ultra near the corner of the L and the other main speaker along one of the legs, I hope that the placement of the two subs up front will be asymetrical enough to help smooth the room response, even though they both are along the same wall.

I guess the main reason for the post is to encourage everyone with multiple subs to keep the information coming.

Cheers,

Chuck

**tpaxadpom** · **07-24-09, 01:10 AM**

Quote:

cstory wrote:

I too am on the fence concerning the addition of another Ultra to my theater/stereo, but in my case I would be adding a PC-13Ultra to a PC-12 Ultra.

The main reason I want to do this, is to help smooth out the response in the room, which is irregularly shaped. My main concern is are there sound quality issues with mixing two different subs. Yeah, they are the same company, but by all accounts, the Ultra13 sounds different from the Ultra 12.

I spend at least half the time with the system listening to music, either stereo or multichannel SACD. (using Marantz AV-8003) I hope to place each of the two subs next to the two main front speakers (Martin Logan Vista's), and am thinking about using the speaker level inputs on the two subs so that I can run them in stereo. With one main speaker and the current PC-Ultra near the corner of the L and the other main speaker along one of the legs, I hope that the placement of the two subs up front will be asymetrical enough to help smooth the room response, even though they both are along the same wall.

I guess the main reason for the post is to encourage everyone with multiple subs to keep the information coming.

Cheers,

Chuck

PC-13Ultra as well as PB-13Ultra don't have speaker level terminals. So you won't be able to run it in the stereo mode. Perhaps you can daisy chain PC13-Ultra with PC-12Ultra using PC12-Ultra builn-in crossover. If you plan on running your subs off your front speaker preamps out that means your fronts will work in the full range. Having the subs in the near proximity with your fronts capable of reproducing bass and not crossed will emphasize the room modes even more.

**tpaxadpom** · **07-25-09, 12:13 AM**

Anthoer thing to consider when you use high level speaker level terminals is that you are going to loose ability to control group delay. Your subs will be always lagging the main speakers. If you are lucky enough you may be able to compensate the difference in timing by placing the subs closer to your chair. We have to wait for the new version of REW to measure the group delay.

**GregBe** · **07-29-09, 11:58 AM**

I am toying around with the idea of a second sub as well. With placement in the front of the room, I get amazing deep bass response. With placement in the back of the room, I get awesome midbass slam. I am hoping one at each end will get me the best of both worlds.

**counsil** · **08-18-09, 12:16 AM**

I have dual PB13 Ultras. One just wasn't enough. The second one also helped flatten my frequency response. I have a ~6400 cubic ft open basement to fill. I have always wondered what it would be like for the folks that have a small 1000 - 2000 cubic ft room. The pressure in a room like that must be intense!!!

I say go for it.

**DaveN** · **10-06-09, 07:55 PM**

You can place them next to each other and boost output by 6dB or you can experiment with room placement to smooth the output. With the SVS equalizer you may get the best of both worlds, more headroom and a flat response.

**Dwight Angus** · **10-07-09, 10:43 AM**

Yeah I now have 2 ultras and added the SVS EQ. What a difference. Alot more impact and a flat response. For me this was the right decision.

**Jon Liu** · **10-07-09, 11:12 AM**

That's great to her, Dwight! The Ultra drivers are truly something special. I cannot wait to hear SVS's next iterations of the Ultra drivers, too!

**DougMac** · **10-07-09, 04:16 PM**

Quote:

Dwight Angus wrote:

Yeah I now have 2 ultras and added the SVS EQ. What a difference. Alot more impact and a flat response. For me this was the right decision.

Did you find the EQ helped a lot?

**Dwight Angus** · **10-07-09, 08:01 PM**

Absolutely
The one note bass I had previously has disappeared and the bass tones are much more defined with less muddiness. I am still experimenting with sub placement but already I notice a big improvement without the optimal sub placement.

**Dwight Angus** · **10-07-09, 08:08 PM**

Dave

I originally colocated the ultras on the screen wall with the center channel between them but I got a much smoother response with each sub located at the mid point on the side walls.

**Dwight Angus** · **10-07-09, 08:18 PM**

Hi Jon
The ultra's do sound amazing. My room as never sounded so good. Some of the credit goes to the SVS EQ keeping things leveled out. Best I do not talk to my wife about any new ultra iterations as she also controls the household budget. Definitely not a good idea.

**Jon Liu** · **10-08-09, 12:52 AM**

lol, definitely not a good idea to talk about the next Ultras then!

Makes it difficult with the wife looming over the money, for sure.

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