SVS PB12Plus/2 vs. New PC-Ultra - Page 2 - Home Theater Forum and Systems -

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post #11 of 21 Old 10-25-07, 09:08 AM
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Re: SVS PB12Plus/2 vs. New PC-Ultra

Yeah, that is another option. I kind of like the idea of just having one monster sub, though. Does anyone have any first-hand advice on the differences between one Plus/2 and two PB12-Plus's?
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post #12 of 21 Old 10-25-07, 10:06 AM
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Re: SVS PB12Plus/2 vs. New PC-Ultra

I have no first hand experience in the sense of having owned those subs, but I've a good grasp on the differences between the two.

Generally, the advantage will always fall toward the pair of singles due to the added flexibility in placement and the naturally deeper tuning of the singles. Thay can play deeper and you have the option of stacking them, placing them side-by-side, or separting them to even out the room response.
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post #13 of 21 Old 10-25-07, 12:16 PM
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Re: SVS PB12Plus/2 vs. New PC-Ultra

A pair of Pluses will pressurize the room more than the PB13U and as mm says will even out the FR. However, going north of 120 dbs in most rooms is stretching their capability. They won't have the articulation of the Ultra, which is pretty astounding, but they definitely put you in the moment.

I know this is a SVS forum and I'm a big supporter, but if you need more out of a single box then the Plus/2, then perhaps you should be looking at companies that begin with the letter E.

Last edited by Ron Temple; 10-25-07 at 01:47 PM.
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post #14 of 21 Old 10-25-07, 01:43 PM
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Re: SVS PB12Plus/2 vs. New PC-Ultra

Yeah, I know what you mean. I looked at the A9-700, but it's just too big...almost like having my refrigerator on its side. The bass must be fantastic, though.
post #15 of 21 Old 10-26-07, 08:21 AM
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Re: SVS PB12Plus/2 vs. New PC-Ultra

If I were you and I would try to raise the budget a bit and go for for 2 new Ultra 13s. These are fantastic subs and they would be able to deliver some strong SPL as well. Otherwise I would chose the DIY alternative with longthrow 18"s and as much power as possible.

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post #16 of 21 Old 10-27-07, 01:49 AM
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Re: SVS PB12Plus/2 vs. New PC-Ultra


I think Sonnie nailed it in his last post.

You are accustomed to high distortion bass.

That's the price of small boxes and small drivers or group PA gear.

It is a large adjustment to listen to high quality bass with real extension.

You are so used to listening to false harmonics instead of the true fundamentals that you miss them.

The better the subwoofer the more like reality it becomes.

Reality involves moving massive amounts of air very gently.

This can be achieved with one or more very long throw drivers (Fathom and Ultra 13) or lots of large drivers moving only a little way. (like an IB)

If you want more you can always stack up a lot of lot of Ultras, Fathoms or Plus2s.

You don't like huge boxes? Perhaps you ought to look at a very large ported 15" or 18" Sonosub? Just like the PC Ultra13 but carried to such extremes that SVS could never get away with it commercially.

If you don't like the height of a big tube you can lay it down behind the furniture. Standing up they have the majesty of a Greek pillar. Lying down they look like a fallen pillar at a Greek ruin.

Done right $2k should buy you some serious raw bass power to satisfy your wildest dB cravings.
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post #17 of 21 Old 10-27-07, 04:58 PM
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Re: SVS PB12Plus/2 vs. New PC-Ultra


I own a PB12+/2 and love it. I upgraded from an M&K sealed 12" and I've worked over the BFD with REW (4 filters).

Forgive the long post, but maybe something below will be helpful.

I, too, was at a brother's house last weekend and astounded at his $500 Sam's Club 5.1 HTIB bass (it was corner-loaded). Funny how I worried slightly the same way as you about bang-to-$ ratios!

Yet, upon returning home and cranking mine the smile returned and I appreciated the lack of "one-note" boom--don't get me wrong, it booms, it just does all sorts of other things also.

There's a great scene in The Island (chapter 12 I believe) where there are all sorts of different frequencies at play. Some are upper-chest gun shots and others are infrasonic shudders. It's a terrific sub demo as many lesser subs can't do the full spectrum of LFE. You should try it--I've never found a better all around demo scene for every kind of LFE...

I had the cool opportunity to visit Ed Mullin's home (of SVS fame) this summer and heard his dual Ultra 12+/2s (in a near-field setup). He has a pretty flat system setup, and we used all three different tuning points on the Flight of the Phoenix plane crash. Holy Cow--it was unreal.

I've heard a lot of things in my days (used to be a mobile dj), but that takes the cake! My pants and shirt sleeves were flapping--but the volume audibly wasn't loud at all. It was eerie and I loved it.

The most impressive thing was that I went home and tried my own single +/2 and it couldn't do it at all--oh, it could pull all the booms, etc. of the later crash, but the wind-flapping stuff prior to the crash, etc. were not there.

Ed told me that the dual subs allow for basically double the headroom, so they don't over-extend, but can go lower with less effort. I think the distortion must be greatly reduced also. I'm telling you, the infrasonics on Ed's system were so cool. In fairness to my +/2 it is in about a double-sized room as Ed's and there's just the one box! Still, I was so impressed!!! It's got me thinking about a dual sub setup big time.

Now, I love my +/2, but if I could get another one (or a PB13) to compliment it, I'd be loving life for sure.

I'll write back in a couple days after I've been able to a/b my +/2 against the F113--I'm putting the JL into a buddy's house and will be hauling my SVS over to his room to see what they both sound like.

Seems to me you should ask yourself some questions about what type of sounds you like. If you like the subs hot, ask yourself if you care whether there's a lot of accuracy or if you just want to get 'hammered'? Car audio is infamous for its distortion--it can be disconcerting to hear "accurate" bass coming from that experience.

Would it be possible to take a different sub over to the showroom where you heard the JL and audition the room? Or would they be willing to throw some of their other subs into that same room/position to a/b the JL? That kind of demo is likely to help you out...

I know the SVS guys are truly helpful as per advice--just email or call them and you'll get steered right.

Enjoy the search...


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post #18 of 21 Old 10-27-07, 09:57 PM
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Re: SVS PB12Plus/2 vs. New PC-Ultra


I'm really curious to hear your thoughts on how your Plus/2 compares to the F113.


To round out my thoughts on bass, I, like most of the folks on this forum, want the best quality bass that I can get. However, I also want to have the headroom to produce absurd levels of bass on demand, should I be in the mood. I was in my brother's home theater last year and he did a demo of 15 Hz sine waves. The bass knocked two picture frames off the wall and rattled the chandelier so loudly his wife had to come downstairs to tell him to turn it down. It also set off his car alarm parked outside in the driveway. Of course, having 4 18" subwoofers hooked up to a 6 kilowatt power source helps. When you go into my music room and see a movie, I want my guests to fear the bass. Unfortunately, I don't have the budget for that kind of setup. Is this comparable to the Plus/2? Hardly. Nevertheless , that is my reference.
post #19 of 21 Old 10-29-07, 05:52 PM
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Re: SVS PB12Plus/2 vs. New PC-Ultra

Im thinking that maybe you should steer yourself toward the DIY market....

Maybe build a couple of boxes with Subduction SDX15 in each 320L tuned to 14hz with as much power as you can throw to them... I would imagine they would be able to pressurize your room to those extremes your looking for... Im sure you could easily do that in your price bracket... rated here to be great performing drivers.

I know this is the SVS forum, and I own a Plus/2 and a Plus in the same room, they are pretty loud... and integrate very well with each other...
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post #20 of 21 Old 10-29-07, 08:58 PM
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Re: SVS PB12Plus/2 vs. New PC-Ultra

I may be wrong but I believe the dB level off a LFE system is limited by the room itself, once pressurization is exhausted you can't get more. Only two things out there push it to this, an Infinite Baffle or the Rotary Thigpen. That system is sick sonnie but he is limited by the subs enclosure's even if he doubled the amount of the speakers he'd only be 6dB more then he is now.

If the boys from the DIY thread or SVS have any insight as to what I said above I know (I and) we'd all appreciate it.

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