Audyssey XT Receiver setup tips needed

[Kal Rubinson]

Sonnie wrote:

I know in one case I had the mic stationary, in another I placed it at the left ear, nose, right ear, as the signal panned around the speakers. I have also held it on top of my head for all three measurements, bringing it down and back up each time. Being a measurement guru... I have tried it about every imaginable way there is to try it.

Aha! You have to remove your head!! The mic should be freestanding, pointed up, and not moved (except in unusual setups) as the test tone moves from speaker to speaker.

The best thing to do it try it and see what happens.

Generally, very good advice but there's little sense in repeating the mistakes that others of us have made in the past.

[Sonnie]

Kal Rubinson wrote:

Generally, very good advice but there's little sense in repeating the mistakes that others of us have made in the past.

Yeah... I thought I made a mistake once, but I was wrong.

Actually I have never had one particular method of measuring turn out to be the best in all cases. It has always varied from setup to setup and from equipment to equipment. The most effective response I obtained was sitting and holding the mic in front of my face using the XT version in my former NAD T-785. The response was slightly worse with the mic free standing. Three measurements from the main listening position turned out to be significantly better than three measurements from the three seats on the front row. I will see if I can find the REW graph... I thought I posted one showing the difference, but maybe not... I cannot seem to put my finger on it at the moment.

[Kal Rubinson]

Sonnie wrote:

Actually I have never had one particular method of measuring turn out to be the best in all cases. It has always varied from setup to setup and from equipment to equipment.

Certainly. My major beef about Audyssey instructions is that they imply that the procedure is simple and foolproof, requiring no attention to speaker arrangements, mic situation or proximate objects.

The most effective response I obtained was sitting and holding the mic in front of my face using the XT version in my former NAD T-785. The response was slightly worse with the mic free standing. Three measurements from the main listening position turned out to be significantly better than three measurements from the three seats on the front row. I will see if I can find the REW graph... I thought I posted one showing the difference, but maybe not... I cannot seem to put my finger on it at the moment.

OK. These are strange findings which is why I was asking for more information about your seats and arrangements. For example, on another forum we learned a lot, with regard to mic orientation, from the failure reports of someone using line radiators .

Kal

[mdrake]

So is there a trick I should be using with Maggies? The Audyssey keeps wanting to crossover the MC1's at 150hz. Maybe I have them at to steep of an angle and not close enough to the wall.... The seats are 4 in a row about 4 feet from the back wall and 12 feet from the front wall.

Matt

[tonyvdb]

Audyssey is an art in it self. Testing as many positions as possible even if it means placing the mic in the same position more then once will give the best results (yes I have also done so) I have a total of seven seats. Have you tried reading a position in front of the seating possitions?

[Sonnie]

Funny thing about microphones... how do we know when they are oriented in the same way our hearing is?

Matt... I am not sure about the Maggies. They are obviously not reaching the lower octaves to trigger a lower x-over point. I am not sure the angle would matter much, but the mid-bass output would probably be more if they are closer to the wall/corner, however that may effect the mids and highs adversely as well. You could let it set it at 150HZ and change it, but you need to do a before an after response measurement to make sure the change doesn't mess things up response wise after the Audyssey equalizing.

[Kal Rubinson]

mdrake wrote:

So is there a trick I should be using with Maggies? The Audyssey keeps wanting to crossover the MC1's at 150hz. Maybe I have them at to steep of an angle and not close enough to the wall.... The seats are 4 in a row about 4 feet from the back wall and 12 feet from the front wall.

Matt

The trick described on the AVS/Audyssey thread had to do with managing the HF radiation pattern from the treble ribbon since it is different from that of the more typical dome or small ribbon. I do not recall any issue with the bass but he was using much larger Maggies.

As for the MC1s, I do not know, off hand, of a solution since the mid-bass from these is greatly determined by placement and they need all the help they can get. (I have used them but quite a while ago and prior to Audyssey or similar products. http://www.stereophile.com/musicintheround/1203round/index1.html) So, while you could change the crossover to 80Hz, Audyssey would not be EQing the 80-150Hz range.

My only suggestion is to play with the positioning of the MC1s or get bigger Maggies.

Kal

[Kal Rubinson]

Sonnie wrote:

Funny thing about microphones... how do we know when they are oriented in the same way our hearing is?

Irrelevant. They just need to measure the sound at the point where our ears are. Adding anything to mimic the ear would be counterproductive.

Kal

[mdrake]

Thanks guys!!!!!!!!!! I can not thank you enough for all the help over the past several months! I took all the advice and kind of rolled it up into one. I took a level and put it on the main seat in the laid back positron so that the seat back was not blocking the mic. I then took 4 measurements starting in the middle then moving to the right by one foot and then to the left by one foot and then back in the middle. It seemed to really help. I will fire up REW and see if it looks any better.

I am still disappointed in Magnepan. After setting the speakers at the recommend angle of 30 degrees they are still lagging in mid bass. Their on wall speakers do not go nearly as low as they advertise. The MMG-W seems to roll off at 200hz and the MCI's seems to be around 150hz. This to me seems like false advertising. I hope there MC2's will at least go down to an honest 80hz. I have a call into them and hope they can shed some light on the problem. I REALLY did not want big speakers in the middle of my HT room but I love the Maggie sound.

[mdrake]

Talked to Magnepan and they were honest. He said that in the real world 150hz is about as low as their MC1 will go. So, I have to either get bigger Maggies or hope the Mal-x will work up to 150hz. Does anyone know if a Mal-x sounds ok crossed over that high?

Matt