Multiple Surround Speakers (more than 7.1)

[mnfish]

OK..So I was thinking about this and wondering if anyone has done this. Having 2 sets of each speaker to get a fuller surround sound (7.1 would actually be 13.2)? Like 1 center, 2 FR, 2 FL, 2 SR, 2 SL, 2 SBR and 2 SBL. And 2 subs. I'm guessing you'd need to run multiple amps or rcvrs off each speaker. So you'd run your FR to a rcvr then run your RT and LT to the 2 FR speakers and so on. You'd need like 6 rcvrs? Does that make sense? This would be for a larger room like 12' wide by 21' long. It just seems like this set up would make a truer surround system? Or am I just way off base?

BTW..I have a projector with a 120" screen. Seating distance to the screen is 13ft.

[tonyvdb]

For a room 12'wide and 21'long any more than the standard 7.1 setup is simply overkill and a waist of time and money. You wont gain any benefits of going with more speakers just spend your money on some good quality/sized speakers (not bookshelves) and you will get what your looking for.

[eugovector]

Won't give you a fuller sound, will likely give you some unwelcome frequency cancellation. Now, there are systems the decode to 10.2, but they haven't hit consumer level, nor are they likely to in the near future. Both Dolby and Audyssey have 9.2 systems that incorporate height channels...I'd start there.

For a fuller sound from 5.1/7.1, look for speakers with a wide soundstange/dispersion patter, and play around with absorption and diffusion in your room.

[spartanstew]

As the others have stated, not only will it not be better, it will probably be worse. For example, you'd have the same dialogue coming from two different center channels. The sound from each one would reach your ears at different times, creating a muddled sound that is not as clear. People spend lots of money on sound treatments to remove these types of "echoes". You'd be adding them in intentionally.

[Wayne A. Pflughaupt]

Hi Ken,

You aren’t married are you?

Like 1 center, 2 FR, 2 FL, 2 SR, 2 SL, 2 SBR and 2 SBL. And 2 subs. I'm guessing you'd need to run multiple amps or rcvrs off each speaker. So you'd run your FR to a rcvr then run your RT and LT to the 2 FR speakers and so on. You'd need like 6 rcvrs? Does that make sense?

You’d use amplifiers. Only one receiver is needed, the primary one. Many receivers’ internal amps are disabled if you plug into their pre-out jacks, so you’d probably need an amplifier channel for each speaker, be it stereo or multi-channel amps.

It’s hard to say for sure if it’ll sound better without actually doing it, but even if it did, I doubt the improvement would be worth the expense for all the extra hardware, not to mention the installation hassles.

Regards,
Wayne

[mnfish]

Wayne A. Pflughaupt wrote:

Hi Ken,

You aren’t married are you?

Actually no...not yet. Ok.. I get that this would not get desired results. I did not mention a double center channel., though, because I knew that would not sound great.

And I guess I didn't mention my set up either. I have a 7.3 system. Denon 3310 (does 9.2), All Def Tech speakers...CLR 2000 Ctr, BP 7004 towers for fronts and subs, BP2.1 Surrounds and 1000's for the rears. Oh and also a Supercube 1.

I was just throwing this out to see if it made any sense? I'm just saying that would it sound good if yo had the main amp (in this case the 3310) and hooked up the outs to other rcvrs and then ran the speakers off of them. What do they do in movie theaters?

[Wayne A. Pflughaupt]

What do they do in movie theaters?

They use amplifiers for the speakers - a lot of them.

Regards,
Wayne

[mnfish]

That's kind of what I was talking about. I guess I should have have said that instead of rcvrs? Could it be done then?

[tonyvdb]

mnfish wrote:

Could it be done then?

Yes, but at a high cost and again not in your space. Theaters have a much larger space between each speaker so the cancellation is not an issue. Theaters also use special processors that decode more than 7 channels of audio.

[mnfish]

My point is that in real life..not all sounds come from a certain speaker. They come from more than just a certain spot/ Especially concert bds. When I listen I hear the audience in certain speakers and not from all over like you would in a real concert. That's kind of the effect I'm looking for. I'd run the the speaker outs from the Denon 3310 to the amps. It's still decoded in 7.1 but gets splint into 2 speakers out from each amp (except the center channel).

But what you're saying is if I hooked up the Audessy mic and calibrated it I would get negative affects? I thought the calibration would get rid of that?

[glaufman]

I wonder if you've got an acoustics or calibration issue... Do you hear it this way from the LP or have you gotten close to the speakers? or perhaps you would simply prefer a more diffuse sound field... what kind of speakers do you use, how's your room set up?

What disks?

[mnfish]

glaufman wrote:

I wonder if you've got an acoustics or calibration issue... Do you hear it this way from the LP or have you gotten close to the speakers? or perhaps you would simply prefer a more diffuse sound field... what kind of speakers do you use, how's your room set up?

What disks?

And I guess I didn't mention my set up either. I have a 7.3 system. Denon 3310 (does 9.2), All Def Tech speakers...CLR 2000 Ctr, BP 7004 towers for fronts and subs, BP2.1 Surrounds and 1000's for the rears. Oh and also a Supercube 1.


Chris Botti in TruHD 7.1

[tonyvdb]

mnfish wrote:

But what you're saying is if I hooked up the Audessy mic and calibrated it I would get negative affects? I thought the calibration would get rid of that?

No, Audessy will not correct it because you would have two speakers on one channel and Audessy can not fix that.
If you place two spaekers that are on the same channel to close together the sound coming out of them where they cross over you will get cancellation of frequency's this is why subs have phase adjustments so if you have more than one you can adjust it to remove this cancellation that may be caused because of placement.

[mnfish]

See..this is why I look here for the answers!! But isn't the reason I'm asking why...that now there are now 9.1 systems (and lossless audio)?? Because someone like me said I want a better or "truer" listening experience? So I will be waiting for that 13.1 system to come out.

[tonyvdb]

Yamaha has an 11.2 channel receiver available however those extra channels are not all active during movies as they are presence channels used during music listening only. With the new Dolby PLz height channels you now have access to 9.2 channels during movies. I highly doubt that we will see anything more than that for a long time to come as there are still only a few movies that support 7.1, 5.1 is still the norm.

[salvasol]

mnfish wrote:

OK..So I was thinking about this and wondering if anyone has done this. Having 2 sets of each speaker to get a fuller surround sound (7.1 would actually be 13.2)?...

I did something (not exactly what you're thinking but similar)....

Look at the picture...



I was using four pairs of speakers in the front; to connect them to AVR I used a speaker selector ....maybe I was dreaming or my ears didn't work right, but with all speakers on; I heard that the sound was in the whole front wall, when I used just the floorstanders I could notice that something was missing ....

That's the good thing about this hobby....you can experiment crazy things (using some precautions so you don't ruin your equipment ); my advise is: "If you have enough speakers and equipment, try what you're thinking, even if it goes against principles....then decide if you like the results"

[spartanstew]

Here you go:








The same set-up can be your for only $1,000,000.00


Partial Equipment List for the Kipnis Studio Standard Beta CinE:

Picture Elements:
Sony SRX-S110 Professional Video Projector
Stewart 18-by-10-foot Snowmatte 1.0 Gain Laboratory-Grade Motion Picture Screen

Players and Sources:
Sony BDP-S1 Blu-ray Player
Sony PlayStation 3 Gaming Console
Toshiba HD-XA1 HD DVD Player
JVC HMDH-5U D-VHS Recorder
SATA Drive (72 HDTV Hours Total)
Mark Levinson N° 51 DVD/CD Media Player
Pioneer HLD-X0 Hi-Vision HDTV MUSE Laserdisc Player

Surround Processing and Decoding:
Theta Digital Generation VIII 32-bit 8x Oversampling Dual Processors (13)

Amplification:
Mark Levinson N° 33h Amplifiers (2)
McIntosh MC-2102 Amplifiers (30)
Crown Macro Reference Gold Amplifiers (3)

Speakers:
Snell 1800 THX Music & Cinema Reference Subwoofers (16)
Snell THX Music & Cinema Reference Towers (8)
MuRata ES103A Super Tweeters (10)
Snell THX Music & Cinema Reference LCR-2800 Center-Channel Speakers (3)

[mnfish]

[salvasol]

spartanstew wrote:

The same set-up can be your for only $1,000,000.00

He said: 1 center, 2 FR, 2 FL, 2 SR, 2 SL, 2 SBR and 2 SBL. And 2 subs....

How is he going to fit all that in his room (12' wide by 21' long), unless he prints the pictures and place them in the wall

EDIT: See my avatar on the left....I'm using 2FL and 2FR, they're wired in series and powered by a Samson pro-amp and I'm happy with the results.

[mnfish]

salvasol...So do you notice that there isn't a hole in the sound anymore? And also...do you have surrounds and surround backs?

[salvasol]

mnfish wrote:

...So do you notice that there isn't a hole in the sound anymore? And also...do you have surrounds and surround backs?

I used to have a dedicated room for my HT (that's the setup on my avatar, room was 9x18x8), I had surrounds and back surrounds and two rows of seats

I no longer have that room, and because the space is smaller I'm just using surrounds, but I'm still using the same setup on the front (2FL + 2FR +1C)....is a total overkill sound.

My reference level is set @ -5.0db, most of the time when I watch a movie I always set the volume between -30db and -25db or I have to be prepared to get a on my door and an neighbor.




(A couple of months ago I was watching Flight of the Phoenix, and my next door neighbor knock on the door and told me that all the sounds were going through the walls (I'm sure he was mad because I didn't invite him ), and I'm sure that this was the cause of the problem (see spoiler))

Spoiler

[Andysu]

mnfish wrote:

I personally think the guy needs to be rushed off to medical care.

I mean for less than $1million you can buy real JBL cinema professional loudspeakers amplifiers and few more gadgets. Not forgetting real cinema seats as well! Now does that fit the bill?

One other major error if anyone cared to notice is the stage fronts are below the screen! Wrong!