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post #11 of 26 Old 10-09-12, 07:42 AM
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Re: No option but to run av cable & power cable close together.

It is very unlikely that there will be a problem due to proximity. Much more likely to have ground loops due to the length of cabling, but if it all goes back to the same location that will likely be fine as well. The length of cables for the signals may end up being the biggest issue.

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post #12 of 26 Old 10-10-12, 08:13 AM Thread Starter
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Re: No option but to run av cable & power cable close together.

Quote:
Wayne A. Pflughaupt wrote: View Post

Hey Dean,

Adding a bit to what the others have said: You didnít go into specifics as to your intent for the RG-6, so Iím assuming itís for component video (as in, your ran three of them)?

Good RG-6 cable has virtually 100% shielding, by virtue of its redundant braided and foil-wrapped double-shielded construction. So, I wouldnít be overly concerned about external interference leaking into RG-6. Just use crimp-on RCA connectors and youíre good to go. For video or line-level audio applications it would have been preferable to use RG-6 with a copper shield, but itís not the end of the world if you didnít.

The Cat-6 may or may not be an issue. Itís not as robust as RG-6, as far as noise-rejection goes. As you know, the typical use for Cat-6 is computer networking. However, computer networks use a balanced line system, not unlike what you see with professional audio, so itís the equipment at both ends that ultimately provides the noise rejection, not the cable itself. The big unknown is whether or not the HDMI extender you use is set-up as a balanced-line system Ė I donít know enough about them to say.

Speaker cable Ė Iím not sure why youíre running that to a projector, but speaker-level signals are generally too high for external interference from near-by electrical power to be an issue.

You didnít mention what kind of conduit you used, but as mikie mentioned, it ifís metal you added significant protection.

Regards,
Wayne
Sorry I haven't posted in here sooner. Firstly the conduit I used is 2 x 32 mm PVC conduit.
The RG6 will be used for my PAY TV set top box and also for a 2nd Sub-Woofer.
The speaker cable that I ran wont be running to my projector, I just ran the speaker cable that direction because if I chose to later want to put speakers directly behind the seating area that way I would have the cable ready there.

I stripped both the RG6 & Cat-6 to see if it has the foil protection. The RG6 has two sets of this foil shielding however the Cat-6 doesn't have any foil shielding.

Are you sugesting that a HDMI extender can be used on RG6?

Regards
Dean
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post #13 of 26 Old 10-10-12, 08:22 AM Thread Starter
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Re: No option but to run av cable & power cable close together.

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lcaillo wrote: View Post
It is very unlikely that there will be a problem due to proximity. Much more likely to have ground loops due to the length of cabling, but if it all goes back to the same location that will likely be fine as well. The length of cables for the signals may end up being the biggest issue.
That's why I used Cat-6 because I was told continuously not to run HDMI cable if your doing runs longer then 15 meters, I was advised to use Cat-5 or 6 and then use a HDMI extender which I believe converts the signal to HDMI at the projector end and Receiver end, I was told this can be used for runs over 100 meters or over 328 feet.
However that's only what I was told by all the AV retailers I called, so I stand to be corrected.

Regards
Dean
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post #14 of 26 Old 10-10-12, 08:37 AM Thread Starter
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Re: No option but to run av cable & power cable close together.

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ask4mikie wrote: View Post
If your conduits are metal then they should shield your AV cables from the power line, and you will be good to go. If they are not metal then at least they are separated by 3+ inches.

The electrical power to the projector MUST be wired according to your national and local electrical codes. To do otherwise is illegal and dangerous! Ungrounded electrical boxes can become energized by an electrical short and electrocute or severely shock people who merely touch it, or something connected to it. This is completely different from ground loops and low voltage AV lines. If your cousin is a trained electrician, he should know how to wire your power runs correctly.

You may want to study up on Cat 6 wiring and how it should be terminated (putting the RJ45 connectors on the end). Poor terminations can be a major source of crosstalk and noise. You may want to consider hiring an IT guy or technician for an hour or two to do the terminations and test the wiring.


My 2 cents,

Mike
Cheers mate thanks for that. My house has a compleate power curcut or power break. It will shut off the electricity throught the entire house if there is any problem at all. Most of the Cat-6 well 3 runs of the 5 runs were purchased pre-terminated.

Regards
Dean
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post #15 of 26 Old 10-10-12, 09:50 AM
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Re: No option but to run av cable & power cable close together.


Quote:
Wheels1974 wrote: View Post
Sorry I haven't posted in here sooner. Firstly the conduit I used is 2 x 32 mm PVC conduit.
The RG6 will be used for my PAY TV set top box and also for a 2nd Sub-Woofer.
The speaker cable that I ran wont be running to my projector, I just ran the speaker cable that direction because if I chose to later want to put speakers directly behind the seating area that way I would have the cable ready there.

I stripped both the RG6 & Cat-6 to see if it has the foil protection. The RG6 has two sets of this foil shielding however the Cat-6 doesn't have any foil shielding.

Are you sugesting that a HDMI extender can be used on RG6?
Thanks for the info, Dean. Obviously PVC conduit isn’t going to have any shielding properties. The RG-6 used for the set box will be fine.

So you’re “sink or swim” for the projector picture with the Cat-5-for-HDMI cable? Might have been good idea to run some RG-6 to use for component video as a back-up. As I noted, I’m not sure if the HDMI extender set-up will utilize the balanced line system needed for ultimate noise rejection. I assume it’s a digital signal, and that in itself might make a difference. I’m unsure if digital signals are prone to external interference like analog signals are, but the fact that computer networks use a balanced signal protocol tells me that they might be. Perhaps someone else watching this thread can comment on that.

Ultimately you may just have to hook it all up and see what happens.

Regards,
Wayne



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post #16 of 26 Old 10-10-12, 05:00 PM
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Re: No option but to run av cable & power cable close together.

One article says that there is no actual length limit in the spec. When HDMI first came out, people had trouble going more than 15 feet. Today they are out to 50 or 60 feet, and possibly much longer.

I don't know how long your cable run will be, but you have a couple of options for a longer run. One would be an HDMI amp somewhere in the run from the equipment to the projector. If the amp requires power, and it is in the middle of the run, that may be a problem. Another option would be to go from HDMI into Cat 5/5e/6 and back to HDMI at the projector. So you would need a converter at both ends. I believe you can run HDMI over Cat5/5e/6 for hundreds of feet.

I have never heard of running component video or HDMI on RG6.

The limit in the spec for 5/5e/6 twisted pair cable is 100 meters. This is about 328 feet (~39 inches in a meter). This limit is for IT purposes.

There are numerous HDMI over ethernet products out there. Some are passive (unpowered), and some are active (powered). They have varying maximum lengths and prices. All the ones I saw used 2 runs of network cable. Some of them had a built in IR repeater to send IR signals to the projector, which might be very handy.


Good luck,

Mike
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post #17 of 26 Old 10-10-12, 05:08 PM
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Re: No option but to run av cable & power cable close together.

One more thing, there is shielded Cat 5/5e/6 available, but it is considerably more expensive. I would try what you have already installed before buying more cable.


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post #18 of 26 Old 10-10-12, 05:14 PM
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Re: No option but to run av cable & power cable close together.


Quote:
ask4mikie wrote: View Post
I have never heard of running component video or HDMI on RG6.
Three RG-6 (or RG-59) cables terminated with RCAs is the functional equivalent of regular component video cables. In fact, Monoprice's premium component video cables are made from RG-6.

Regards,
Wayne




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post #19 of 26 Old 10-10-12, 10:38 PM Thread Starter
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Re: No option but to run av cable & power cable close together.

Quote:
Wayne A. Pflughaupt wrote: View Post


Thanks for the info, Dean. Obviously PVC conduit isnít going to have any shielding properties. The RG-6 used for the set box will be fine.

So youíre ďsink or swimĒ for the projector picture with the Cat-5-for-HDMI cable? Might have been good idea to run some RG-6 to use for component video as a back-up. As I noted, Iím not sure if the HDMI extender set-up will utilize the balanced line system needed for ultimate noise rejection. I assume itís a digital signal, and that in itself might make a difference. Iím unsure if digital signals are prone to external interference like analog signals are, but the fact that computer networks use a balanced signal protocol tells me that they might be. Perhaps someone else watching this thread can comment on that.

Ultimately you may just have to hook it all up and see what happens.

Regards,
Wayne
Wayne,
Thanks again for all your information mate it all helps, as I know very little about all this.
I ran 5 Cat-6 cables & 4 RG-6 cables from where the projector will be to where my Receiver will be, I also have arial cable already there, that was passed there when I built the house.
So I will have at the very least 3 spare Cat-6 & 2 spare RG-6.

When you say "Might have been good idea to run some RG-6 to use for component video as a back-up." I will have at least 2 spare RG-6 cables that run from where the projector will be to where the Receiver will be.
What I dont understand is how can RG-6 be used as a backup for my projector, excuse my ignorance but can RG-6 be used in the same way as Cat-6 when it comes to adding a HDMI extender to it, it order to have HDMI signal going into the Projector & Receiver?

Regards
Dean
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post #20 of 26 Old 10-10-12, 10:56 PM
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I know that the Key Digital Baluns are balanced. There are several types of extenders. If it were me I would purchase ones that support HDbaseT. They ar more expensive but much more reliable. Almost every budget extender that we have installed were client provided and have all been replaced. Some last for a year some not longer than a month and some didn't work at all. I would also recommend cat6 if your going more than 100'. We've had picture and audio fallout using cat5 beyond 100'.

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