Cohesive Sound Stage & Imaging - Home Theater Forum and Systems - HomeTheaterShack.com

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post #1 of 23 Old 08-12-16, 02:14 PM Thread Starter
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Cohesive Sound Stage & Imaging

I am using my HT to temporaily test a 2 channel listening room setup. The result in ok but want to improve imaging & sound stage I get good center fill but speakers are still localized as I can hear audio from both speakers. How do I fix this?

My setup is as follows:

speakers are Golden ear Triton Ones.

Speakers are 7 ft from front wall. Unable to move closer to front wall as there is HT front stage in place.
Speakers are 3 ft from side walls.
Speakers are 9 ft apart & 9 ft from MLP.

The room is rectangular- 25 ft long x 16 ft wide x 8 ft tall.

Appreciate any assistance.

Mains- Goldenear Triton One's
Center Channel- Goldenear Super Centre XL
Surrounds- Goldenear SuperSat 50's
Back Surrounds- Goldenear SuperSat 50c's
Atmos -Goldenear HTR 7000's
Amps- Bryston 4Bsst2/Emotiva XPA-5/Marantz M7025
Processor-Marantz AV7703 Preamp
Projector- Sony VPL-HW55ES
Screen- Elunevision 140 inch 4K Audio Weave
Bluray/Universal player-OPPO 105D
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post #2 of 23 Old 08-12-16, 02:54 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Cohesive Sound Stage & Imaging

Some additional info

I have acoustical side wall treatments for 1st reflections
Front wall have been treated.
HT is carpeted.
Rear wall treated

Mains- Goldenear Triton One's
Center Channel- Goldenear Super Centre XL
Surrounds- Goldenear SuperSat 50's
Back Surrounds- Goldenear SuperSat 50c's
Atmos -Goldenear HTR 7000's
Amps- Bryston 4Bsst2/Emotiva XPA-5/Marantz M7025
Processor-Marantz AV7703 Preamp
Projector- Sony VPL-HW55ES
Screen- Elunevision 140 inch 4K Audio Weave
Bluray/Universal player-OPPO 105D
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post #3 of 23 Old 08-12-16, 02:55 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Cohesive Sound Stage & Imaging

Also MLP is 38% of room length.

Mains- Goldenear Triton One's
Center Channel- Goldenear Super Centre XL
Surrounds- Goldenear SuperSat 50's
Back Surrounds- Goldenear SuperSat 50c's
Atmos -Goldenear HTR 7000's
Amps- Bryston 4Bsst2/Emotiva XPA-5/Marantz M7025
Processor-Marantz AV7703 Preamp
Projector- Sony VPL-HW55ES
Screen- Elunevision 140 inch 4K Audio Weave
Bluray/Universal player-OPPO 105D
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post #4 of 23 Old 08-12-16, 05:44 PM
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Re: Cohesive Sound Stage & Imaging

You did not mention speaker toe in. If speakers are pointed straight at the MLP, try less toe in. If you set the convergence point for the speakers at a point on the back wall straight behind the MLPL, 18 ft away from the "speaker plane," or about 10.2 ft behind the MLP (the "speaker plane" to MLP distance is 7.8 ft), toe in would be about 14 degreres degrees and your "off axis listening angle" would be 16 degrees. See how that sounds. You might even try less toe in that that.


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post #5 of 23 Old 08-15-16, 11:00 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Cohesive Sound Stage & Imaging

Toe in currently is directly at the MLP. I will try altering the toe in to see if that works. Appreciate the help.

BTW going to look at BOSCH laser measurement device later today. It will certainly help with the symmetry.

Mains- Goldenear Triton One's
Center Channel- Goldenear Super Centre XL
Surrounds- Goldenear SuperSat 50's
Back Surrounds- Goldenear SuperSat 50c's
Atmos -Goldenear HTR 7000's
Amps- Bryston 4Bsst2/Emotiva XPA-5/Marantz M7025
Processor-Marantz AV7703 Preamp
Projector- Sony VPL-HW55ES
Screen- Elunevision 140 inch 4K Audio Weave
Bluray/Universal player-OPPO 105D
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post #6 of 23 Old 08-15-16, 11:30 AM
 
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Re: Cohesive Sound Stage & Imaging

Quote:
Dwight Angus wrote: View Post
Toe in currently is directly at the MLP. I will try altering the toe in to see if that works. Appreciate the help.

BTW going to look at BOSCH laser measurement device later today. It will certainly help with the symmetry.
Is this the one you are looking at?
https://www.amazon.com/GLM-15-Compac...SIN=B00LGANH8K
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My Home Theater
Yamaha CX-A5100, (3) JBL 2360A/EV DHA-1s, (3) 1/4 Pie bass bins, (2 pr) JBL 8340As, (2 pr) JBL 8320s, PS3, XBox One, (2) Intel NUCs, Redmere HDMI cables, Monster Signature HTPS7000, (2) Furman Power Conditioners, (2) DTS-10 subs, Panasonic AE8000, SeymourAV 180 (195" diag) scope screen, Darbee Darcet, Panamorph UH-480 lens, (2) Crest Audio 2208, Yamaha XM-4080 & P7000s, (2) MiniDSP DDRC-88M, Oppo UDP-203

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post #7 of 23 Old 08-16-16, 08:50 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Cohesive Sound Stage & Imaging

Picked up the Bosch GML 30 as its accurate to 1/16 of an inch. Will try it today.

Mains- Goldenear Triton One's
Center Channel- Goldenear Super Centre XL
Surrounds- Goldenear SuperSat 50's
Back Surrounds- Goldenear SuperSat 50c's
Atmos -Goldenear HTR 7000's
Amps- Bryston 4Bsst2/Emotiva XPA-5/Marantz M7025
Processor-Marantz AV7703 Preamp
Projector- Sony VPL-HW55ES
Screen- Elunevision 140 inch 4K Audio Weave
Bluray/Universal player-OPPO 105D
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post #8 of 23 Old 08-16-16, 09:48 AM
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There are nice new models like that for pretty cheap. You'll love it.
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post #9 of 23 Old 08-16-16, 06:21 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Cohesive Sound Stage & Imaging

Used the Bosch glm30 today. Is sure speeds up the measuring process. Much better. I moved the Triton Ones further apart from 9 ft to 9 1/2 ft & further back from the PLP to 9 1/2 ft to retain equilateral triangle. This left me with about 30 inch gap from side wall to rear side of speaker to side wall & 44 inches from speaker center front to side wall allowing for toe in. I don't want to place the speakers any closer to side wall boundry if possible.

It does sound better with good center fill. Sound stage is deep with vocals sounding crisp & clear. I will try some different toe ins tomorrow. Currently the toe in is on axis aimed at the PLP as suggested by manufacturer.

Mains- Goldenear Triton One's
Center Channel- Goldenear Super Centre XL
Surrounds- Goldenear SuperSat 50's
Back Surrounds- Goldenear SuperSat 50c's
Atmos -Goldenear HTR 7000's
Amps- Bryston 4Bsst2/Emotiva XPA-5/Marantz M7025
Processor-Marantz AV7703 Preamp
Projector- Sony VPL-HW55ES
Screen- Elunevision 140 inch 4K Audio Weave
Bluray/Universal player-OPPO 105D
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post #10 of 23 Old 08-16-16, 07:56 PM
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Re: Cohesive Sound Stage & Imaging

Nice speaker choice. I see the Triton speaker ads all the time in my Stereophile mag and I find myself staring at it every time I pass by. Its so complex looking and my interest is piqued. I've read much positive opinion...

I have thoughts and opinions - first, adjusting speaker distance from each other, front/back wall, side wall is the a trial and error - try and listen experiment with each two channel or multi setup. Various speaker placement in various sized rooms with added varying levels of room treatments I believe makes a simple answer impossible.

AudioCraver posted a pretty basic starting point of 7' speaker separation awhile back here's the link

http://www.hometheatershack.com/foru...oundstage.html

I like the 7' starting point for speaker separation - even though your using a relatively large speaker, because your so far from the front wall and the back wall is so far away I would think sound pressure levels and sound reinforcement are falling away quickly leaving you with a clear ability to pin-piont the sound direction and failing to reinforce the sound field - sound stage.

Because the Triton Ones passive sub radiators are on the side I would think side wall placement is not a concern for LFE's but for mid's and hi's I have a sense being so close to a treated side wall is taking the life from your speakers.

I think if you turn up the volume and you begin to hear a sound-field emerging I would definitely try a narrower separation to begin with.

This might sound crazy..., but, if you want to actually see what is happening with your sound stage reinforcement or lack of - set up a shallow pan of water to the scale of your room with damped walls and a three walled scaled enclosure for wave propagation you can get a very clear picture of exactly what is occurring with sound wave interaction at the MLP or wherever in the room...
Room coupling with the speaker is not always a neg contribution... I think.

I know...

Happy Listening
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