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Looking at tube amps...

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15K views 48 replies 12 participants last post by  class a 
#1 ·
I am back on the two-channel ban wagon again. I am about to go through a speaker evaluation pretty soon, considering several different speakers. I am looking for the right tube amp for that evaluation.

After hearing all the various tube amps at LSAF, I am sold on giving tubes a go in this system. Luther (Wardsweb) introduced me to several brands that I have been looking at. I am looking at the ProLogue Seven Monoblocks, which just happen to be on sale right now. These would be plenty of power to handle pretty much any speakers I decide to get... and have the "AdaptiveBias" feature to keep me from having to fool with setting the bias.

Another option is a pair of the Jolida JD-501P amps (120 watts mono each), which would save me about $600 over the ProLogue Seven's. However, I think the Seven's have a few added features that would be nice to have... and again, I would not have to worry about ever adjusting the bias.

Then the Rogue Cronus Magnum also looks like a fine choice as an integrated amp... including phono input... and KT120 tubes for plenty of power. I am impressed with this amp.

I am not sure if there are any others I should consider, as I really do not know much about tubes. I did not really want to spend $2,000 either, but I may.
 
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#2 ·
All of those amps look very good. By going with a tube amp, you are opening up a bunch of possible tweaking! I wouldn't worry about biasing the tubes. It is so easy and only takes a couple of minutes, it is really not a problem. It's not like you need to bias them every time you turn on the amps! After breaking in, I find that it is about every 6 months that I am checking the bias, and most of the time, it is not even off enough for me to worry about.

You are going to find different tubes give you different flavors of sound. I have tried a few different affordable amps, like the Cayin TA-30 (which I really miss), the TA-1000's (100 watt mono block amps) and now I have the Yaqin MS-20L. It's a 60 watt per channel tube integrated. I have tried several different tube configurations and have settled on what sounds best in my room on my equipment. I love my tube gear.

I really enjoy the sound I get out of my tube gear. Once you settle on which one you want to purchase, I am sure you will be happy with your purchase.
 
#3 ·
Hey Jeff... good to hear from you... it's been a while.

I appreciate the info. I feel better about the bias situation if it is not too big of a deal, although I am highly forgetful. Maybe that will open me up to a few more options to save a little money.
 
#4 ·
Sonnie, what are you you planning to use for a pre amp? I do have to say that is a lot of amp for $1000 speakers.

The Jolida is nice, but the PrimaLuna and Rogue are definitely better, especially at the price. I wouldn't let bias setting be a selling point, many amps have simple user adjustments with bias meters or indicators to guide you.
 
#5 ·
Hey Dennis... wanna drive over to Bama for a evaluation session?

The pre-amp will be the OPPO BDP-105... unless I get an integrated tube amp.

May just go the inexpensive route to start with... looking at a YAQIN MC-100B on ebay shipped from Canada. Read a lot of good things about these amps for the tube newb.
 
#7 ·
Hey Dennis... wanna drive over to Bama for a evaluation session?
Sonnie - I've certainly had the time, been off work for the last 7 weeks healing up from surgery (back to work soon). Would love to come listen for a while, I might have to make a trip that way someday. I think it is very cool that you are diving into 2 channel, you are going to have a lot of fun auditioning new gear and enjoying music.

The pre-amp will be the OPPO BDP-105... unless I get an integrated tube amp.

May just go the inexpensive route to start with... looking at a YAQIN MC-100B on ebay shipped from Canada. Read a lot of good things about these amps for the tube newb.
YAQUIN has been doing well, and that amp is a powerhouse. Another company to look at is Cayin. I very much enjoyed the LSAF Black Hole Audio system with the Cayin A-50T integrated amp in it.

Found another "auto biasing" design with the Musical Paradise MP 501 KT120 out of Canada. Another option that looks promising.
I really like the features on the Musical Paradise amp, single ended Class A and zero feedback has my attention. You will want fairly efficient, high impedance speakers with something like that, but the few single ended amp systems I've heard sounded pretty wonderful.
 
#9 ·
You are finding out very quickly how vast the tube world is. From designs, topology, tube manufacturers, equipment manufacturers, new, used, rebuilt, modded and on and on. Some are better than others, some are just different and some are personal taste.
 
#10 ·
Sonnie,

I have had really good luck with the Yaqin integrated amp. If my budget would have allowed, I would have looked into the Cayin A-50T. I have tried amps with the EL34 and the KT88 tubes. For me, I like the sound of the EL34 tubes much more than I liked the sound from the KT88. Maybe because I heard the EL34 sound first, who knows, I just know that I liked the sound of those tubes, the warmth and detail, much more than the KT88's. Of course, this is just my opinion. I was able to hear both tube systems in my house through the same speakers.

When looking at tube amps (integrated amps) for my system, I really only looked at the EL34 amps. I have tried several different tube combinations and in the system I have now, I changed out the Chinese tubes that came with my amp to 4 NOS Mullards for the low end of the preamp and 4 of the GE JAN5654W's for the upper end of the preamp. I tried Golden Lion KT-77's in place of the EL34's and then changed those to Tung-Sol EL34B. It sounds incredible! I have them paired up with speakers that are really sensitive, the Energy Veritas 2.4's. Like everyone else, I have went through many, many speakers. I really like this set up for my two channel playback. That's all this system is for. My theater is upstairs.

Listening to records and CD's through my two channel system is incredible! I find that my teenage sons both use it regularly, records, cds and even their iPhones! I'll come home and the stereo will be cranking. My wife has, on several occasions let them know that they are spoiled and will not have a system of this quality when they move out. That is so true. I enjoy it and it is nice that others in my house enjoy it too! They show it off to their friends, it's quite satisfying.

Here is the setup in the family room. The TV is not going through the speakers, I have a sound bar for it.

 
#11 ·
Here are a few of my tube amps. The low power 2A3 and 6DN7 are DIY. The curve side EL34 is also DIY. The others are a Shanling SP-80 monoblock. Final Labs Music 3 (only one ever made), and a rebuilt McIntosh MC240.
 

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#12 ·
You guys are killing me here.

I guess I am just gonna have to get two or three tube amps with the different tubes and give each a try so that I make sure I get what I really want.

I did read where the EL34 tubes were more of that traditional tube sound that the KT88's. What is the difference between the EL34 and EL34B?
 
#14 ·
It is always best to hear different gear before you buy. Starting a local audio group that rotates get togethers among the member's homes is always nice. Finding a local dealer that will let you audition in your home is good. You could always buy the Prima Luna 7 that will allow you to plug and play lots of tubes; KT88s, 6550, KT90, EL-34, KT77, 6CA7, 6L6GC, KT66, 7581, and EL37. That way you only buy tubes and not a lot of different amplifiers.

My pictures from top to bottom are:

1) Bottlehead Paramour that run single ended triode (SET) 2A3 with about 3 1/2 watts per channel.
2) DIY scratch built stereo 2A3 SET with a separate power supply chassis.
3) Bottlehead 6DN7 SET with about 1 1/2 watts per channel. These require high efficiency speakers.
4) DIY scratch built stereo EL34 based on the Dynaco ST70 amp but with an improved design and parts.
5) Shanling SP-80 mono block with 6CA7EH tubes, sometime called a fat bottle EL34 at about 50 watts per channel.
6) Final Labs with the case open has traditional EL34 (smaller glass) at about 40 watts per channel.
7) McIntosh MC240 running Windged "C" 6L6GC at about 40 watts per channel.
 
#16 ·
Don't get to hung up on high power. The difference from 40 watts to 80 watts is only about 3dB to the human ear. The KT88 in the Primaluna is about 70 watts. Most of the other tubes are in the 40 watt range. Primaluna under drives their amps. This gives you very clean audio and extended tube life. Tube life even more so with their soft start circuit.
 
#18 ·
Phono preamps are like any other piece of audio gear. You can find them from $20 to $20,000. You plug your turntable into it and it raises the voltage to about 250mv that other input devices have, so you can then plug the phono pre into any line level input; aux, CD, tape, etc.

What turntable and cartridge will you be using?
 
#19 ·
Gotta say I really like the looks of this one
 
#21 ·
Gotta say I really like the looks of this one
I run the Shanling SP-80 mono blocks in my main two channel system. The Electro Harmonix 6CA7EH tubes have been great. 7 years and still going strong. The amps have a variable input gain that I use to run them 30dB down on input. My horns don't need all the power.
 
#22 ·
I have always loved the looks of the Shanling amps. Those are beautiful amps. I love the look of their CD player too. It must sound really good to have them in your main system when you have so many different amps to choose from.

For the record player, I am using a very affordable Yaqin MS22-B. It is only for MM. It was about $200. My record player isn't high end at all, it is a Music Hall 2.2, entry level record player.

From the research I could come up with, the EL34"B" is the Chinese designation for the EL34. I don't think they are different than the EL34's.
 
#25 ·
More for fun I would say. I want to experience the tube sound and do some tube rolling, so whatever I get, I hope it will be something where I can try out several different tubes, especially the EL34 vs the KT88. After I settle on a pair of speakers, I may later try a solid state amp on them just to hear the difference between the tubes and solid state.

You don't need anything exotic to start. This one works well and has a gain control.

http://www.phonopreamps.com/tc750lcpp.html
Awesome... seems like it won't be all that expensive after all. Thanks!
 
#26 ·
The 502CRC would be a good choice. As an integrated, Just hook up your source, your speakers and you are good to go. You get a lot of flexibility and tube oiling.
 
#27 ·
I am kind of thinking I may end up wanting a small sub for this two-channel system. I don't know for sure yet, but will find out once I get these speakers in here for evaluation. Since I am using the OPPO 105 as my primary source, I can use the SW preout on the back of it to feed a sub, but that won't help with the turntable. Can the Fixed/Variable Outputs on the back of the Jolida be used for sub preouts?
 
#29 ·
After doing more research and reading... I think (you know how that goes) that I have finally narrowed it down to the Rogue Cronus Magnum with KT120 tubes. It seems to make the most sense, as it has the phono input, pre-outs and is available in all black. It will have plenty of power to handle just about any speaker I throw at it ... and I can experiment with other tubes as well. I think this is my first choice.

I believe an integrated amp is more feasible for my setup. I think my second choice will be the newer Jolida Fusion JD 3502, which isn't on Jolida's site yet, but they have one in stock in Maryland, according to one of their dealers. It is not quite the power of the Cronus Magnum and does not have phono input, so it does not get the nod... yet, it does have XLR inputs and I don't listen to phono as much as I probably should because a lot of what I like is not offered on vinyl... or I don't want to spend the money to get it.

I have pretty much discarded PrimaLuna, as they don't really have a comparable integrated solution that seems to fit as well within that $2K range.
 
#32 ·
Thank you for starting this thread as I have been playing a bit as well.
I have not decided on an amp/integrated yet as there are several I am looking at including a nice deal on a Dared integrated. I built a set of high efficiency speakers with the 8" Tang Bands and they sound absolutely stunning. Single driver full range speaker that will not reproduce The Who volume levels but with some sanity involved they truly shine. Thus far I have only used SS amp preamp although using a Tube Dac helps a tad. Believe it or not, these speakers let me hear into the recording better than most anything I have heard at least in the less than say speakers bought for a couple thousand dollars worth.

Now I am told by others that have used this driver that they work substantially better with tubes, particularly with a class A triode amp that may be more than I want to experiment with. So your thoughts are very valuable.
 
#33 ·
Absolutely your speakers would benefit from a nice SET amp. You don't need a lot of power. They are very efficient. A 2A3 or 300B is magical with single driver full range speakers. If you want more punch, then a push pull amp with 20 watts will rock your world.
 
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