HDTV vs Front Projectors with Screens

[wbassett]

Okay... I just finished rewiring my HT setup. I found a bad cable running to my sub woofer, so it was a good thing I pulled my cables, labeled them, and replaced any bad ones. I knew something was 'missing' and it was definitely nice to hear the sub back in action.

The new items added to my setup are a Sony 55" 1080p SXRD HDTV, a PS3 that functions as a Bluray player and future media center, and a Toshiba HD A2. The PS3/SXRD setup is a stellar combination. My brother's comment when he saw Casino Royal was that I definitely went the right way. Now I know Casino Royal is one of Sony's 'showcase' BD movies, but over the course of the past week we tested and viewed a wide variety of movies, both HD and BD, as well as upconverted SD movies. Unfortunately the PS3 doesn't upconvert, and I also can't run it to my projector.

Then I fired the projector up.

As good as I thought it was, and as much as I love it, there was no comparison. I did find some nice things that made me smile... like all HD DVD movies are rendered very nicely at 1080i over the component out, and non-copy protected disc's also are upconverted to 1080i over component. Now that I have a source to feed my projector a 1080 signal, I don't think I can ever watch 480i/480p again on it. The image was incredible, but still the SXRD blew it away. There was just more detail, especially in the background and distant scenes, and there was a 3D depth to the image that the projector just couldn't seem to match. Don't get me wrong, the projector did well and things did have plenty of depth, just not like the HDTV. (I also did a test on backing up one of the movies I own, and once the copy protection was gone, it upconverted beautifully... but if someone is to try this, you should already own the movie and no questions about doing it will be answered on this forum)

Part of it has to do with my projector, I know that and plan on updating it down the road. I have come to the conclusion though that people expecting the same look and 1080p quality they see in stores or on their 1080p HDTV's... well it's not going to happen... at least not at the level these sets do.

Projectors deliver a very film like image, and since I am a movie buff that is something I really like and appreciate. I think they are two types of viewing tastes though. I just saw Spiderman 3 over the weekend, and then watched Spiderman, and Spiderman 2.1 on the HDTV and briefly put it up on the big screen too. I personally think that the projector looked closer to how movies look in the theater, but that added detail and image pop that 1080p HDTVs have is a real eye opener.

So, I am going to do some more screen testing to see if I can improve things even more, but I also know there is a limit, which is fine. Big epic movies really deserve to be seen in an epic way, but it's also nice to be able to sit in the living room on a Sunday afternoon with all the light coming in and still be able to watch a movie that looks crisp and clean

I'm not sure when I will get to some more testing, but the coming months should be fun. I also plan on doing some shoot outs with other screen paints, both DIY and commercial, and I know Mech is planning on doing some extensive laminate shootouts on his end... so hopefully we'll have some fun and good things coming very soon!

Bill

[Tiddler]

Hi Bill,

I think I came to the same conclusions too late to go back. I saw a 70" JVC RPTV (LCD I think) and was blown away. It was about $6000 at the time though. That seems high but when you add up all the costs of setting up a front projection system it is not so high.

On the other hand when I saw the results DR.Doom was getting with his Hitachi UltraVision HDPJ52 Projector with an Easy-Flex-06\1xPearl screen I was not so sure anymore. I know you have heard this before but my first impression when he projected HDTV images was WOW it's like a 120" plasma. I know the projector is probably quite good but I think the room color helped a lot too.

If I'm not mistaken your room is a light color. If that is the case, your projector not withstanding, is it really a fair comparison? I'm not suggesting the room need be flat black but a darker matte color, including the area immediately above the screen would probably close the gap between the RPTV and the front projection.

My wife is starting to talk about some of the darker blue colors for our living room. I'm sure that introducing these colors in an eggshell finish will improve my setup considerably. I base this on the results I saw in DR.Doom's dark mustard brown room. Even with the white perforated tile suspended cieling I think the wall colors were making a big difference.

Any idea how we can do a comparison of a white room to a darker colored room? I doubt we could capture the difference with a camera though.

[wbassett]

The JVC monster almost had my bank account number too... especially when Tiger Direct had them for $2700! I since found that they have a green push, and I can say that when I was previewing and auditioning sets between the Mits, JVC, and SXRD, that I did see the image as having a slight green push to it. Honestly though, I think if it wasn't in direct comparison to the other sets I and others probably wouldn't have noticed it.

Tiddler wrote:

If I'm not mistaken your room is a light color. If that is the case, your projector not withstanding, is it really a fair comparison? I'm not suggesting the room need be flat black but a darker matte color, including the area immediately above the screen would probably close the gap between the RPTV and the front projection.

Yes my room is currently a light color, but with the screen I have up right now it still remains very very dark when viewing a movie with the projector. I did have issues with higher gain white screens 'lighting up' my entire room, but that's not a problem anymore.

Tiddler wrote:

On the other hand when I saw the results DR.Doom was getting with his Hitachi UltraVision HDPJ52 Projector with an Easy-Flex-06\1xPearl screen I was not so sure anymore. I know you have heard this before but my first impression when he projected HDTV images was WOW it's like a 120" plasma. I know the projector is probably quite good but I think the room color helped a lot too.

Don't get me wrong, I still think projectors can produce an incredible image, and yes people have said mine looks like a big plasma... but that is when I only have the projector on. Once I turn on the SXRD there really is a huge difference.

I am still working on my room as far as putting up the wall coverings and then I will be painting it. That will definitely improve things as far as making it even darker (but it really is quite dark right now).

I managed to tweak the projector while watching Van Helsing in high def, and I can say it was the best my projector ever looked.

As far as a comparison, there really is no contest between a good quality HDTV set and a projector, but again I will say that they are two totally different types of viewing, one is bright like a TV, the other is more film like. Some people like how a TV looks and think a projector is 'weak', but I do like the film look. But when it comes to size and feeling like I'm at the movies, I still like the projector.

Just a friendly word for everyone though... never fire up your projector and do a direct comparison to a 1080p set I know I will never watch 480p again that is for sure, and I seriously doubt I will ever have the SXRD on at the same time the projector is!

I'll see if I can run through a full calibration now that I have a 1080 source and then put up some screenies. I thought everything looked good before, but with a high def source it's a knockout now and to me looks very film like, which I think is a good thing.

For others out there... what are your expectations of your projector setup, or if you are thinking about buying a projector what are you wanting and expecting? This is more of a fun thread to me

As Tiddler pointed out and I mentioned in the first post, the screen is only part of the equation... the room color and setting does have a bearing on things too. Trust me, I am not trying to sway anyone away from projectors, I was just blown away when I did a direct comparison.

[wbassett]

Tiddler wrote:

Any idea how we can do a comparison of a white room to a darker colored room? I doubt we could capture the difference with a camera though.

Yeah, actually we both sound like good candidates for something like this, but since it requires completely painting and redoing our rooms it's not something that will get done and posted this weekend that's for sure!

What we can do is stake some screenies now with the lighter colored rooms, and then take the exact same shots after we paint our rooms. I think our eyes will see more than the camera picks up, but I do think we'll see a slight difference even with the screenies. Sounds like a fun test

[SteveCallas]

Agreed - I calibrated a friend's Sanyo Z5 not too long ago, and while the end result looked nice, it can't match a good LCD pannel. Better detail, better contrast, and yes, a more 3d image on the pannel.

[wbassett]

Yeah like I was saying Steve, I still like projectors for their big epic movie theater look and feel. I wasn't trying to trash them, just point out that they are two very different ways to view a movie. Personally I'm not a big fan of using a projector for regular viewing or things like TV, but some people are and that's fine.

I have my wife talked into letting me put an addition on the house in the next year or two for a dedicated home theater setup. When I get that done, it will only have a projector in that room and the HDTV will stay in the living room for causual and cozy movie viewing. As much as I love projectors, sometimes we like to just throw a movie in on a lazy Sunday afternoon... maybe in a couple of years we'll find we spend more time in the dedicated room, but for now it is nice having the best of both worlds available. Being format neutral is pretty nice too! (Well with one exception, I stood in Best Buy for 45 minutes the other day trying to decide on which movies I wanted and in what format! )

[dirtyharriett]

HUGE is the only way to go for me. About a 2 months ago my Sony VPL-10WHT projector that I have had for over 6 years finally blew up after over 15,000 hrs of service. Now faced with the prospect of no video source at all I had to rush out and make a purchase. I could only afford with the cash at hand a 42" plasma. The picture looked really nice but sitting on a wooden riser in front of my 155" screen it looked TINY. The viewing experience just wasn't in the same galaxy for me. I tried watching movies on it but simply struggled to keep my interest. Finally almost two months later my JVC DLA-RS1 arrived and now I am back in paradise. I think those who say they like the smaller HDTV's better have never experienced the true impact of a 13' foot diagonal picture. When I watch sports... the players at times are lifesize. I know that front projection has the drawback of needing a somewhat darker room but the trade-offs are small when compared to the pay-off's in my opinion. Just my 2 cents...

[wbassett]

I hear ya. When I got my 55" 1080p set I was really eyeballing the 65" sets, and Tiger Direct had a deal going on the 70" JVC for $2700. I didn't want something too big or it would interfere with my projector screen, and I didn't want anything too small. 55" is a good casual viewing size. Besides, smaller than 50" and more than 7 feet away and 1080p loses it's advantage over 720p sets. The clarity and vibrance of this set really makes it hard to switch back and forth between it and the projector. I actually have to go a day or two without watching either and then fire up the projector alone. Then it's watchable, but I ruined my experience for myself and now am looking for a new projector!

The one technology that is really going to benefit from 1080p is front projection. I would love to test a 1080p/24 front projector and see if I can get the image quality back up to what I 'thought' I had before I bought this **** SXRD!

Are you planning on getting another projector dirtyharriet? Dumb question right? I guess I should ask which projector are you planning on getting? Home Theater Magazine gave both the Sony VPL-VW50 SXRD, and the JVC DLA-HD1 pretty good scores and reviews. I heard the DLA pushes green a little, and if it is the same tecnology as the rear projection sets, I did see a green push when I was auditioning HDTVs. I am extremely happy with the SXRD RP set, I'd love to talk to someone that has a VPL-VW50!

[ACGREEN]

I am looking at the Sony VPL-VW50 or the new panasonic or Mitsubishi 1080p projectors. I am hesitant about the 3 panel LCD's as I did not like the picture of the Epson 1080p. I loved the picture of the Sony at Ultimate, but not the Epson. Anyone have any experience with the 3 panel LCD's?