Audyssey XT32 vs. Dirac Live Listening Comparison - Page 5 - Home Theater Forum and Systems - HomeTheaterShack.com

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post #41 of 94 Old 06-14-15, 12:22 PM
 
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Re: Audyssey XT32 vs. Dirac Live Listening Comparison

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kbarnes70 wrote: View Post
Agree totally with your last observation there. I just started from what seemed obvious to me - that if the mic doesn't have a really uninterrupted line of sight to every speaker, then the result is pretty much guaranteed to be sub-optimal. After all, my ears have a clear line of sight to every speaker In my room, with my high-back cinema chairs, this requires me to raise the mic quite a bit over and above the initial mic position (which is with the tip of the mic just above the MLP seat back - not quite where my ears go, but again, required if clear line of sight is a priority). Then, as I say, I completed the final 4 measurements 'randomly' around the seating area, but always making sure that the mic can 'see' all the speakers. It may be a compromised method, but then my HT is a set of compromises anyway, as many are. The bottom line is that I have better sound right now than I have ever done before.

As I am a newbie here, perhaps I should say that I am a very experienced user of Audyssey and Audyssey Pro and my current system is an Atmos 5.2.4 setup. Main speakers are M&K S150, surrounds are Tannoy Di6 DC (chosen for their good nearfield characteristics and coherent phase - my room is very small and the surrounds are closer than I'd ideally like) and the overhead speakers are Tannoy Di5 DC (chosen for their very wide dispersion - as per Dolby recommendations - and their power handling capabilities for my -5dB below cinema reference movie listening). Subs are dual Seaton Submersives in a Master/Slave arrangement. Amplification is 'adequate' for my purpose
Makes perfect sense to me too (mic positions). I am looking forward to moving to Dirac, and see what it can do for me.

I have read your other forum posts (about Audyssey), and very much agree with you.

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post #42 of 94 Old 06-15-15, 06:30 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Audyssey XT32 vs. Dirac Live Listening Comparison

For those interested, I just updated the thread titled Data Supporting a Single Setup Mic Position for Audyssey or Dirac Live. It no longer applies to Dirac Live. And there are new recommendations for Audyssey.

As stated in the nanoAVR DL review, following the recommendations of Dirac Research and miniDSP is the right way to go, with the added advice to "randomize" positions after the initial measurement at the center of the LP (LPC). I will add the suggestion that LPC always be used for the first position, even if it does not have line of sight to all the surrounds (for both Audyssey and Dirac Live). The information at that point is so critical for the best SS&I for the front main speakers, that I believe it should always be used. For all remaining measures, line of sight to the surrounds is certainly important.

As always, let your ears and your experience be your own best guide.
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post #43 of 94 Old 06-15-15, 07:29 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Audyssey XT32 vs. Dirac Live Listening Comparison

Given the thread topic, it is worth noting here that in this latest work with mic calibration patterns, more listening comparison was done between the best SS&I performance of Dirac Live vs. Audyssey XT. While Audyssey did a very good job, the SS&I performance of Dirac Live was sharper and more precise. XT32 might have done a better job, although this can not be automatically assumed. See THIS POST for details.
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post #44 of 94 Old 06-16-15, 04:53 AM
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Re: Audyssey XT32 vs. Dirac Live Listening Comparison

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AudiocRaver wrote: View Post
For those interested, I just updated the thread titled Data Supporting a Single Setup Mic Position for Audyssey or Dirac Live. It no longer applies to Dirac Live. And there are new recommendations for Audyssey.

As stated in the nanoAVR DL review, following the recommendations of Dirac Research and miniDSP is the right way to go, with the added advice to "randomize" positions after the initial measurement at the center of the LP (LPC). I will add the suggestion that LPC always be used for the first position, even if it does not have line of sight to all the surrounds (for both Audyssey and Dirac Live). The information at that point is so critical for the best SS&I for the front main speakers, that I believe it should always be used. For all remaining measures, line of sight to the surrounds is certainly important.

As always, let your ears and your experience be your own best guide.
Yes - I should have made that clear in my post too. Although I am very keen to ensure line of sight for all subsequent measuring positions, for the first position it is recommended to place the mic where one's head would be. If my ears were at a lower listening level, I would do as you suggest and ignore line of sight to the surrounds for the first position, since it is the mains which will most impact SS&I and the surrounds arenít so relevant there. But for subsequent mic positions I think it is important that the mic can see the surrounds - not for SS&I but to better align the timbre/tonal characteristics of all the speakers in the system.

For the remaining position, a more randomised arrangements seems to work well, and it is a relief to not have to obsess over mic positions to the extent that Audyssey always seemed to require if one was to get consistent results. Audyssey seems to be much more sensitive to mic position during the measuring phase than Dirac Live is. I get a great DL calibration every time, regardless of the precise positioning of the mic (other than the first position of course).
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post #45 of 94 Old 06-17-15, 08:26 AM
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Re: Audyssey XT32 vs. Dirac Live Listening Comparison

I have XT32 & I have high back chairs so I am going to try the right triangle setup with 8 measurements at my mlp. My goal is to improvement SS&I. I will report back once I evaluate the results.

Mains- Goldenear Triton One's
Center Channel- Goldenear Super Centre XL
Surrounds- Goldenear SuperSat 50's
Back Surrounds- Goldenear SuperSat 50c's
Atmos -4 x Goldenear HTR 7000's
Amps- Bryston 4Bsst2/Emotiva XPA-5/2 x Marantz M7025's
Processor-Marantz AV7703 Preamp
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post #46 of 94 Old 06-17-15, 08:30 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Audyssey XT32 vs. Dirac Live Listening Comparison

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Dwight Angus wrote: View Post
I have XT32 & I have high back chairs so I am going to try the right triangle setup with 8 measurements at my mlp. My goal is to improvement SS&I. I will report back once I evaluate the results.
Super! I would love to get your feedback!
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post #47 of 94 Old 06-22-15, 08:55 AM
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Re: Audyssey XT32 vs. Dirac Live Listening Comparison

Just to be clear I am tall & my ears are about 2 inches below the high seat back in a seated position. In the right triangle setup measurement #1 is at centre of head ear height. Where is the 2nd measurement? Is it 2 inches higher at the seat back height or should I go higher given my ear height. My concern is measurements 3 through 8 as the #8th position has to end up at an equal height equal to postion #1

Mains- Goldenear Triton One's
Center Channel- Goldenear Super Centre XL
Surrounds- Goldenear SuperSat 50's
Back Surrounds- Goldenear SuperSat 50c's
Atmos -4 x Goldenear HTR 7000's
Amps- Bryston 4Bsst2/Emotiva XPA-5/2 x Marantz M7025's
Processor-Marantz AV7703 Preamp
Projector- Sony VPL-HW55ES
Screen- Elunevision 140 inch 4K Audio Weave
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post #48 of 94 Old 06-22-15, 09:08 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Audyssey XT32 vs. Dirac Live Listening Comparison

Go higher.

Higher is better, go up 8 to 10 inches for point # 2.
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post #49 of 94 Old 06-27-15, 10:17 AM
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Re: Audyssey XT32 vs. Dirac Live Listening Comparison

Quote:
kbarnes70 wrote: View Post
Agree totally with your last observation there. I just started from what seemed obvious to me - that if the mic doesn't have a really uninterrupted line of sight to every speaker, then the result is pretty much guaranteed to be sub-optimal. After all, my ears have a clear line of sight to every speaker In my room, with my high-back cinema chairs, this requires me to raise the mic quite a bit over and above the initial mic position (which is with the tip of the mic just above the MLP seat back - not quite where my ears go, but again, required if clear line of sight is a priority). Then, as I say, I completed the final 4 measurements 'randomly' around the seating area, but always making sure that the mic can 'see' all the speakers. It may be a compromised method, but then my HT is a set of compromises anyway, as many are. The bottom line is that I have better sound right now than I have ever done before.
Quote:
AudiocRaver wrote: View Post
...I will add the suggestion that LPC always be used for the first position, even if it does not have line of sight to all the surrounds (for both Audyssey and Dirac Live). The information at that point is so critical for the best SS&I for the front main speakers, that I believe it should always be used. For all remaining measures, line of sight to the surrounds is certainly important.

As always, let your ears and your experience be your own best guide.
Quote:
kbarnes70 wrote: View Post
Yes - I should have made that clear in my post too. Although I am very keen to ensure line of sight for all subsequent measuring positions, for the first position it is recommended to place the mic where one's head would be. If my ears were at a lower listening level, I would do as you suggest and ignore line of sight to the surrounds for the first position, since it is the mains which will most impact SS&I and the surrounds arenít so relevant there. But for subsequent mic positions I think it is important that the mic can see the surrounds - not for SS&I but to better align the timbre/tonal characteristics of all the speakers in the system.
Quote:
AudiocRaver wrote: View Post
Go higher.
Higher is better, go up 8 to 10 inches for point # 2.
I might need to return to a random yet repeatable mic location scheme to eliminate the unpredictability of midrange distortion some of my Dirac sessions have produced. Lately I've resorted to:
  • First measurement at LPC
  • Next four psuedo-randomized at or below seat height to left and right of LPC
  • Final four psuedo-randomized above seat height to left and right of LPC

I say "psuedo-randomized" because I located the mic in the same horizontal plane (i.e. parallel to the floor). While that pattern consistently yields good SS&I and engaging surround effects, bass is still a bit anemic and mids seem to carry an underlying distortion not unlike that of a over-driven guitar amp. I've so far been unable to establish a correlation between my measurement procedure and/or mic locations and the compromised performance. But some trials have yielded successful results. I plan on trying the Triangle Method next, and would like to add myself to the list of people reporting back with their findings.

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post #50 of 94 Old 07-14-15, 07:23 PM
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I'm kinda confused. I thought this thread was closed to Dirac trials so I posted all my experimentation and results over here:
http://www.hometheatershack.com/foru...ic-test-4.html

Sent from my iPad using HTShack

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