Room EQ or not to Room EQ, that is the question - Home Theater Forum and Systems - HomeTheaterShack.com

 
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post #1 of 9 Old 03-10-16, 04:54 PM Thread Starter
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Room EQ or not to Room EQ, that is the question

With all the room EQ flavors available now (Audyssey, MMAC, YAPO, Dirac) one begins to think how much is too much. Ive been wondering if in my case I could acomplish the same or even better results myself using outboard EQ on the front sound-stage.

So over the last few weeks Ive been playing with turning audyssey off and then manually adjusting the EQ on my two Yamaha YDP2006 EQs that are on my left, right and centre channels.

One of the things Ive learnt is that applying EQ filters on frequencies above 400Hz will cause your imaging to colapse across the front if they are applied to different frequencies on different channels.
To prove this I set up a preset with no filters applied. I played some well recorded musinc that I use for demos and that I know, played the track and then I then took a filter with average Q and added it only to the left channel at 4K (so it was a nice boost from about 2K up to 6K) and then another at 2K on the right channel and I was actually astonished how much just that caused the image to move into the center of the room or what seemd to pull it from where it should be.
I then restored the flat setting and tried several different frequencies again different on the two channels cutting and or boosting and each time the difference was noticeable.
I then did the same test but this time I locked the left and right channels so any adjustment would be done evenly on each channel, this did not effect the image at all other than boosting the frequency range of that part of the music.

I know that with auto room correction it is quite common to have filters automatically added that are different on each channel as my first section of my tests did, this would be concerning to me as that is not the right method and should be avoided. I wonder what others thoughts are on this is and if I am correct then Onkyo may be on the right path by eliminating EQing the mains and only focusing on the sub and surrounds.

Home theater:
Onkyo 805, Yamaha YDP2006EQ, Samson Servo 600 amp
3 EV Sentry 500 monitors across the front, 4 Mission 762i's Surrounds, SVS PB13U sub, Panasonic BDT220, Harmony 1100, Nintendo WiiU
Panasonic PT-AE8000 on a 120" 2,35:1 fixed screen

Living room system:
Sherwood/Newcastle R972, Mission 765's, SVS SBS02's, A/D/S MS3u sub, Yamaha YDG2030EQ
Yamaha KX-393 Tape deck, CDC 805 CD changer, Panasonic BD60, Sony turntable PS-T20
Panasonic TC-P50ST60, HD-PVR & WDTV Live, Harmony 900


Last edited by tonyvdb; 03-11-16 at 09:13 AM.
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post #2 of 9 Old 03-10-16, 05:56 PM
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Re: Room EQ or not to Room EQ, that is the question


Interesting thread, Tony. What results did you hear WRT soundstage when you switch Audyssey in and out?

Regards,
Wayne




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post #3 of 9 Old 03-10-16, 06:11 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Room EQ or not to Room EQ, that is the question

If you go direct on your receiver you will get the same sort of results as if you bypass Audyssey. The difference is slightly noticeable when I bypass it on my system so it leads me to believ that Audyssey is doing this to my system as well. I have one thing going for me in that my room is quite semetrical but for some who have odd shaped rooms or one side is different than the other (placement of furnaturee etc) this could be problematic.

Home theater:
Onkyo 805, Yamaha YDP2006EQ, Samson Servo 600 amp
3 EV Sentry 500 monitors across the front, 4 Mission 762i's Surrounds, SVS PB13U sub, Panasonic BDT220, Harmony 1100, Nintendo WiiU
Panasonic PT-AE8000 on a 120" 2,35:1 fixed screen

Living room system:
Sherwood/Newcastle R972, Mission 765's, SVS SBS02's, A/D/S MS3u sub, Yamaha YDG2030EQ
Yamaha KX-393 Tape deck, CDC 805 CD changer, Panasonic BD60, Sony turntable PS-T20
Panasonic TC-P50ST60, HD-PVR & WDTV Live, Harmony 900


Last edited by tonyvdb; 03-10-16 at 06:26 PM.
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post #4 of 9 Old 03-10-16, 06:37 PM
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Re: Room EQ or not to Room EQ, that is the question

I prefer listening to the music in reference stereo mode. dirac does help but also remember dirac can group speakers together. dirac applies the same filter to both left/right channels. You can also window down it's workable range.

My next dirac test will be only below 400hz and leave 400+ alone and will try that out and compare it to reference stereo.

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post #5 of 9 Old 03-10-16, 09:46 PM
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Re: Room EQ or not to Room EQ, that is the question

After spending a couple of years tweaking xp32 I find that turning Audyssey off reduces the overly bright highs, improves clarity & generally sounds more natural. May be different for you
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post #6 of 9 Old 03-11-16, 09:01 AM
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Re: Room EQ or not to Room EQ, that is the question

Quote:
Talley wrote: View Post
I prefer listening to the music in reference stereo mode. dirac does help but also remember dirac can group speakers together. dirac applies the same filter to both left/right channels. You can also window down it's workable range.

My next dirac test will be only below 400hz and leave 400+ alone and will try that out and compare it to reference stereo.
Me too I prefer listening the music without any eq because my B&W fronts speakers are better that the others.
When I had my Yamaha, YPAO had an option that applied the autoeq only to center and surrounds when fronts are better than the other.

For the moment, I take a brake of all EQ and listen my system "as is" to reset my ears and my brain. In one month, I will see if it is worthy to return to eqing. My feeling is that with more than 2 speakers, the interactions between all spekers in a small room may need to be "domesticated" by filters. But I am know thinking that maybe "the best is the ennemy of the good". In other words a top eq software as Dirac or Audyssey may do more harm than less filters manually choosen with Rew's help and set manually into the receiver.
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post #7 of 9 Old 12-30-16, 12:14 PM
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Re: Room EQ or not to Room EQ, that is the question

I suggest applying electronic correction after maximizing the room treatment acoustically.

Best,

Hadi


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post #8 of 9 Old 12-30-16, 03:01 PM
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Re: Room EQ or not to Room EQ, that is the question

Quote:
yphs_mst wrote: View Post
I suggest applying electronic correction after maximizing the room treatment acoustically.

Best,

Hadi
A+.

Now, after many hours (more than 120hrs) playing with 16 small home made bass traps (roxul safe'n sound 3 inches thock), later (3 at the ceiling and front wall junction, 1 behing front right speaker, 1 at right front wall/ceiling/right wall corner, 1 at the right wall/back wall/floor corner,1 at back wall/right wall/ceiling corner, 1 at the back wall/ceiling/left wall corner, 4 on the back wall) I do not have a perfect FR response (I stil have more than 5db between down and peaks at many frequencies) but it is the best sound I ever had.
For stereo music it is good for me and in a 5.1 configuration with nanoAvr-DL it is very very good.
Still I have problems with nanoAvr-DL to fix.
Happy New Year everybody, Wayne, jtalden John :rew"the master in chief among many others of the home theater shack followship!
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post #9 of 9 Old 01-02-17, 03:15 AM
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Room EQ or not to Room EQ, that is the question

I love the Audyssey for movies and games. It makes it impeccable to enjoy. I love how the Polk setup I have sounds lifelike. As I live an apartment I do not listen to the material at reference level for extended periods, but at -10 and down is scary good.
I think after having several different sets of main room speakers throughout the years I have found that having sonically matched drivers and cabinets, ie same line speakers is the biggest difference anybody can make. With that in mind I have noticed from room to room differences in how the sound is projected to the seating position. I believe that the room correction software helps immensely and correcting things about each room. Having used my Onkyo in six different rooms it is really helped match the sound quality between each room. No it isn't the end all Avenue to fix these problems but it greatly improves I believe uniformity and I can tell a difference from a standard mode versus the enhanced room corrected mode.
I have noticed differences in the same room between different calibrations. Sometimes running at two or three times gives you different results depending on the mic placement and background noise and so on.
On the topic of how it affects each material video games and movies sound I would say photo realistic I guess. Music sounds very detailed and clear as well as sonically accurate. I have noticed though on the hunk it was room correction even without room correction out lacks the bass. then my second room I run a 1990s Yamaha stereo receiver. Same exact speakers and the difference is beyond drastic. Music sounds phenomenal on at. Movies don't have the same punch, same with games. So I would say it varies a little bit between not only to receiver itself but the material you're using it for.


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Btw hope my typo errors can be read through, as the voice to text on my iphone might've gotten certain things misinterpreted and typo'd.

1x Onkyo TX-SR876(Receiver)
1x Panasonic TH46PZ80U (TV)
1x Polk Audio CSi5 (Center Speaker)
2x Polk Audio RTi12 (Tower Speakers)
2x Polk Audio Rti6 (Surround Speakers)
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Sony Playstation2, Nintendo Gamecube, Super Nintendo Entertainment System, Nintendo N64, Sega Dreamcast.
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