Audyssey Graphs - Please post your results! - Page 3 - Home Theater Forum and Systems - HomeTheaterShack.com

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post #21 of 122 Old 02-03-10, 05:54 PM
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Re: Audyssey Graphs - Please post your results!

The "after" looks much better. If you have the ability, it would be good to see the full frequency response.

And the general concensus on dealing with dips is to move the sub or the listening position, or both, rather than throwing a lot of amp power at it with a positive filter.
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post #22 of 122 Old 02-03-10, 06:21 PM
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Re: Audyssey Graphs - Please post your results!


Actually, any equalizing requires more amplifier power. Even if you have only a single 10 dB peak, that’s what your overall sub level was based on. Cut the peak and you’ll find your sub is now not as loud as before. So, you increase its level to make up for the lost volume. Voila, now you’re driving your sub harder than you were before – at all frequencies except for the one you cut...

If you were dealing only with a dip in response, assuming it wasn’t a null and could be equalized, you’d only be driving the amp harder at the frequency that’s boosted.

So there’s no free lunch. Any equalizing requires ample headroom going in. In Moonfly’s “After” graph we can see that overall sub level has been increased by several dB. That amounts to increased demand on the amplifier. Equalizing raised the lowest point of the dip from ~62 dB to ~67. So it may respond to additional equalization. Can’t hurt to try.

Regards,
Wayne



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post #23 of 122 Old 02-03-10, 06:33 PM
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Re: Audyssey Graphs - Please post your results!

Sound reasoning Wayne. I stand corrected. "Common wisdom" file updated.
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post #24 of 122 Old 02-03-10, 07:09 PM
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Re: Audyssey Graphs - Please post your results!


LOL - seems like I've spent half my life battling that "general consensus." Nice to have whittled it down one more notch.

Regards,
Wayne




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post #25 of 122 Old 02-04-10, 06:39 AM
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Re: Audyssey Graphs - Please post your results!

Well, Wayne. That depends a bit on what he used to set the level with in the first place. If he usen an SPL meter, then yes. If he used a tool like REW or Audyssey, then the peak would be above the general level of the sub, and thus would 'save' headroom.

Not saying you are wrong, just saying there are other circumstances that need to be identified.


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post #26 of 122 Old 02-04-10, 07:18 AM
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Re: Audyssey Graphs - Please post your results!

I love a good debate (dont we really need a dedicated discussion thread?)

Right, both graphs are obviously produced with REW. Both are measured at the 75db reference level. The sub is in one of only 2 available positions in my room, and is in the better of the two. All the other available room positions would require a smaller sub,a dn have been tested but dont offer a better response. In short the place it is, is as good a spot as any in my room, and there are no better available. The space it is in is large enough to accommodate a decent sized sub, so Ive taken advantage of it with the DIY sub Ive built, and subsequently measured.

As noted, Audyssey seems to have boosted the output of the sub by about 6db-9db, then trimmed the peaks. Audyssey actually ping'd the sub 3 time for each sweep, which I understand is it testing the subs threshold. However, it wont boost much more than 9db anyway, and as the boost seems to be across the entire range I assumed its limited the amount of boost to what the lower end, or majority of the response needs. This to me means that while the dip (caused by the room, every sub Ive tested has this same dip) has been boosted, there is probably a bit more room to add a bit more with the BFD Ive recently acquired, beyond what Audyssey wants to.

All in all I'm happy with what Audyssey has done,the sound is very good, and every time I use it I get consistent and pleasing results. Nothing short of fantastic for a free feature, given the next cheapest auto eq solution is about £250 for me.

Currently my sub is back in bits as I want to get the cabinet finished. When I get it back together, I'll apply the BFD based on the above post Audyssey graph, then re-run Audyssey and see how it comes out. I doubt I'll be disappointed, but I'll update the build thread (see sig) when I finally get there.
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post #27 of 122 Old 02-04-10, 08:07 AM
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Re: Audyssey Graphs - Please post your results!


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atledreier wrote: View Post
Well, Wayne. That depends a bit on what he used to set the level with in the first place. If he usen an SPL meter, then yes. If he used a tool like REW or Audyssey, then the peak would be above the general level of the sub, and thus would 'save' headroom.
Could you explain further? That doesn’t make much sense to me.

Regards,
Wayne



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post #28 of 122 Old 02-04-10, 08:19 AM
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Re: Audyssey Graphs - Please post your results!

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Wayne A. Pflughaupt wrote: View Post
[FONT="Comic Sans MS"]
Actually, any equalizing requires more amplifier power. Even if you have only a single 10 dB peak, that’s what your overall sub level was based on. Cut the peak and you’ll find your sub is now not as loud as before. So, you increase its level to make up for the lost volume. Voila, now you’re driving your sub harder than you were before – at all frequencies except for the one you cut...
I have bolded the part I am talking about. I agree, IF you use an SPL meter and noise to set the levels. But if you use a calibrated microphone and REW, or Audyssey for that matter, the peak may be above the average level of the sub, and require ONLY a cut to be in line with the rest. In that case there is no additional headroom needen, you have 'saved' a little headroom. Am I making sense?


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post #29 of 122 Old 02-04-10, 09:38 AM
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Re: Audyssey Graphs - Please post your results!

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the peak may be above the average level of the sub, and require ONLY a cut to be in line with the rest.
I don’t think anyone sets their sub level (before equalization) based on a response average.

My premise has nothing to do with SPL meters, Audyssey, etc. It’s based on the assumption (right or wrong ) that if there is a peak in the room, then before adding equalization, people will have adjusted their sub level based on that “hot” frequency. If they had set the level based on the response average, they would ultimately perceive the sub to be too loud and turn it down. I don’t think anyone’s going to steadfastly endure an overpowering subwoofer just because “that’s what the measurement says is right.”

Consider this: Assuming there is a peak in the room – The peak is acoustically induced, so it is “free” gain. That translates to “free” headroom, since the peak means that the sub’s level has been set lower than it would be otherwise. Eliminating the peak means that the “free” gain now has to be made up elsewhere. That means the “free” headroom will be lost. Make sense?

Basically, it’s all about the sub’s “before vs. after” gain setting. It doesn’t matter if you cut the peak electronically (via equalization) or acoustically (by relocating the sub). If "after" ultimately means the sub’s level is increased, then additional amplifier power is required.

Regards,
Wayne



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post #30 of 122 Old 02-04-10, 09:58 AM
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Re: Audyssey Graphs - Please post your results!

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Wayne A. Pflughaupt wrote: View Post
I don’t think anyone sets their sub level (before equalization) based on a response average.

My premise has nothing to do with SPL meters, Audyssey, etc. It’s based on the assumption (right or wrong ) that if there is a peak in the room, then before adding equalization, people will have adjusted their sub level based on that “hot” frequency. If they had set the level based on the response average, they would ultimately perceive the sub to be too loud and turn it down.

Regards,
Wayne
I agree. That's the way I perceive the issue.

I always end up calibrating the sub to the mains about 3 or 4 times as the process of dialing things in takes place. The first one is rough and like you mentioned usually has the largest peak or 2 dominating the calibration level. After you get your placement/phase/ crossover to the mains dialed in more you may have significantly smoothed things already and then your sub is a bit low, so re calibrate. From there perhaps you add a second sub or even a couple and dial them in if you are using a multi sub approach (you should be) at which point you may need to recalibrate overall levels again. At that point you might be EQing any remaining peaks down and you guessed it...time to calibrate levels again. After all of that it's time for Audyssey to bat clean-up (which I have yet to use.)
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