The Ten Biggest Lies in Audio - Page 10 - Home Theater Forum and Systems - HomeTheaterShack.com

View Poll Results: Ten Biggest Audio Lies: Agree or Disagree (If you disagree, you must explain why!) Votes are public!
I agree with all of them. (If you vote here... do not vote again.) 131 44.41%
I disagree with all of them. (If you vote here... do not vote again.) 11 3.73%
1. The Cable Lie: Agree 106 35.93%
1. The Cable Lie: Disagree 36 12.20%
2. The Vacuum-Tube Lie: Agree 55 18.64%
2. The Vacuum-Tube Lie: Disagree 61 20.68%
3. The Antidigital Lie: Agree 70 23.73%
3. The Antidigital Lie: Disagree 43 14.58%
4. The Listening-Test Lie: Agree 79 26.78%
4. The Listening-Test Lie: Disagree 34 11.53%
5. The Feedback Lie: Agree 72 24.41%
5. The Feedback Lie: Disagree 29 9.83%
6. The Burn-In Lie: Agree 85 28.81%
6. The Burn-In Lie: Disagree 36 12.20%
7. The Biwiring Lie: Agree 78 26.44%
7. The Biwiring Lie: Disagree 34 11.53%
8. The Power Conditioner Lie: Agree 76 25.76%
8. The Power Conditioner Lie: Disagree 41 13.90%
9. The CD Treatment Lie: Agree 94 31.86%
9. The CD Treatment Lie: Disagree 25 8.47%
10: The Golden Ear Lie: Agree 81 27.46%
10: The Golden Ear Lie: Disagree 31 10.51%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 295. You may not vote on this poll

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post #91 of 287 Old 07-16-10, 11:25 AM
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Re: The Ten Biggest Lies in Audio

Quote:
eugovector wrote: View Post
I'm sure a technique which doubled their production cost, but increased their retail 20-fold.
Same line of thinking with drug companies. Everyone wants to complain how they charge $5 for a pill that cost 10 cents to make, but nobody cares to think how much the company spent to develop and market that pill.
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post #92 of 287 Old 07-16-10, 11:28 AM
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Re: The Ten Biggest Lies in Audio

Yep, the poor drug companies that can't turn a profit for all the R&D expenses that they have. I'm sure these cable companies are similarly hard up.

Just to be clear, I have no problem with R&D, but if you have so much R&D you should be able to show, with scientific measurements, how your cables are better and how you will be able to perceive that difference. Relying on reviews from loony audiofools who describe your cables as "chocolaty" does not count.
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post #93 of 287 Old 07-16-10, 04:13 PM
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Re: The Ten Biggest Lies in Audio

Quote:
gdstupak wrote: View Post
As far the expensive speaker cables go,
years ago I read an article from a company explaining why their cables are expensive and why they sound better. I don't know if this is bull or not.
It is....
Quote:
gdstupak wrote: View Post
Their story involves frequency time alignment. They said that when using stranded speaker wire, where all strands are of the same gauge, the higher frequencies will travel faster than the lower frequencies.
Not at audio frequencies.

Quote:
gdstupak wrote: View Post
They found out 2 characteristics of signal flow:
1. higher frequencies travel in the center of the cable, lower frequencies travel in the outer ring of the cable.
This is skin effect and is a known phenomenon for a century or so. So long as the individual strands are <0.8mm or so then current density is even through the strand CSA at all audio frequencies. Even if the strand is larger, all it will mean is a slight increase in impedance as the frequency rises. As it is rare in stranded conductors used for audio interconnects or speaker cable, this is a complete non issue.
Quote:
gdstupak wrote: View Post
2. the larger the gauge of wire strands, the faster the signal flows.
No, the larger the CSA, the lower the series resistance.
Quote:
gdstupak wrote: View Post
So knowing these characteristics they engineered speaker cable that has larger wire strands around the outer ring (this will speed up the lower frequencies), and smaller wire strands in the center (this will slow down the higher frequencies). This will allow the high and low frequencies to arrive at the speaker at the same time.
Nope. All of this is basic EE.
Quote:
gdstupak wrote: View Post
Also, bending normal speaker wire will cause the strands inside to deform and disturb the proper speed of signal flow. So their cable sheathing was lubricated inside and was designed specially to allow the wires inside to slide easily and not deform as much.
Garbage.

All of the above is simply marketing designed to remove money from you for a higher priced product that will actually make a trivial, if any, difference for significantly more money.
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post #94 of 287 Old 07-16-10, 04:31 PM
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Re: The Ten Biggest Lies in Audio

Agreed ^^, spend your money where it really counts and thats on the receiver, speakers and display. None of the items brought up above will make any audible difference.

Home theater:
Onkyo 805, Yamaha YDP2006EQ, Samson Servo 600 amp
3 EV Sentry 500 monitors across the front, 4 Mission 762i's Surrounds, SVS PB13U sub, Panasonic BDT220, Harmony 1100, Nintendo WiiU
Panasonic PT-AE8000 on a 120" 2,35:1 fixed screen

Living room system:
Sherwood/Newcastle R972, Mission 765's, SVS SBS02's, A/D/S MS3u sub, Yamaha YDG2030EQ
Yamaha KX-393 Tape deck, CDC 805 CD changer, Panasonic BD60, Sony turntable PS-T20
Panasonic TC-P50ST60, HD-PVR & WDTV Live, Harmony 900

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post #95 of 287 Old 07-16-10, 04:43 PM
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Re: The Ten Biggest Lies in Audio

OK.
My HomeDepot speaker wire from years ago has turn green and was looking for replacement wires, guess I won't get those...just kidding, lamp cord is fine with me.
Something that I did believe until recently was that bigger gauge wire was better for higher wattage applications, but understand it is unnecessary. It sounded plausible to me as an electrician, I thought maybe more wattage was a more intense signal that would need a bigger path. I guess wattage has no bearing on size, mostly only length has bearing on size.
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post #96 of 287 Old 07-16-10, 04:54 PM
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Re: The Ten Biggest Lies in Audio

The general concenses is to use the largest awg wire that will cleanly fit inside the binding posts and that is usually 14awge. 12 or larger is un-necessary unless running very long distances and using outboard amps with high output 800watts+

Home theater:
Onkyo 805, Yamaha YDP2006EQ, Samson Servo 600 amp
3 EV Sentry 500 monitors across the front, 4 Mission 762i's Surrounds, SVS PB13U sub, Panasonic BDT220, Harmony 1100, Nintendo WiiU
Panasonic PT-AE8000 on a 120" 2,35:1 fixed screen

Living room system:
Sherwood/Newcastle R972, Mission 765's, SVS SBS02's, A/D/S MS3u sub, Yamaha YDG2030EQ
Yamaha KX-393 Tape deck, CDC 805 CD changer, Panasonic BD60, Sony turntable PS-T20
Panasonic TC-P50ST60, HD-PVR & WDTV Live, Harmony 900

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post #97 of 287 Old 08-30-10, 10:04 AM
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Re: The Ten Biggest Lies in Audio

The craziest thing about all of this is that there will always be a sucker somewhere or otherwise none of these products would exist/ methods exist. It is a shame really that such companies are out there giving people a bad taste for good audio.
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post #98 of 287 Old 08-30-10, 10:11 AM
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Re: The Ten Biggest Lies in Audio

gdstupak,

wattage can matter. But only at very high currents. The higher the current passing through a wire, the higher the gauge needed. If not sized proper you can burn up the wire through IČR losses.

For example you don't need 12awg until you get above 6amps continuous operation. At least that is what the chart said. I am sure an electrician can better state the true ratings.
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post #99 of 287 Old 09-03-10, 11:11 AM
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Re: The Ten Biggest Lies in Audio

Wow, where to start. Or, when to stop. Wire. I go with cheapest wire that I can find one size bigger than I require. If I calculate my biggest required size is 14 ga (for wattage and distance), I buy 12 ga and put it everywhere. Easy to run 1 cable size, and cost not a big deal if buying for $.30-.40/ft. I'll buy better if I can hear a noticeable difference but I'm not gonna hold my breath. As for interconnects, I don't like a lot of the cheapest cables for durability reasons, not the sonic characteristics. I get the highest quality cables offered by the lowest cost supplier, which I usually find to be Monoprice. Burn-in. Speakers - yes. Headphones - yes. Anything else - no (amps benefit from warm up - give them 15 minutes before getting critical). Golden ears. My hearing stinks. Left ear has 70 dB drop above 1000 Hz, yet I can tune a system decently knowing what to listen for. Many people with average hearing think it's fine, then I make it better. However I have met Golden Ears who notice problems that no one else do, make minor changes, and improve things for everyone. It is a combination of natural hearing ability and training. ABX - maybe. My rule of thumb is that if I hear a noticeable difference I am willing to spend a little more. I buy Paradigm speakers because I like the sound (personal preference) and I would have to pay at least double for anything else I like better. Monitor Audio and Boston Acoustics are arguable equally well built and priced slightly higher, but not my auditory pleasure. They don't sound inferior in quality, just different. I applaud those who listen to a variety of brands and choose MA, or BA, or KEF, or whatever. Where I draw the line is when "experts" argue over the merits of two different options. If "experts" can't come to a consensus, I'll take the cheapest option. Enough of my ranting.
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post #100 of 287 Old 09-13-10, 09:44 PM
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Re: The Ten Biggest Lies in Audio

I agree with all of them. II think that they are worth receiving the first rank.
1. The Cable Lie: Agree

2. The Vacuum-Tube Lie: Agree

3. The Antidigital Lie: Agree

4. The Listening-Test Lie: Agree

5. The Feedback Lie: Agree

6. The Burn-In Lie: Agree

7. The Biwiring Lie: Agree

8. The Power Conditioner Lie: Agree

9. The CD Treatment Lie: Agree

10: The Golden Ear Lie: Agree

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Last edited by helen82; 09-15-10 at 09:04 PM.
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