The Ten Biggest Lies in Audio - Page 14 - Home Theater Forum and Systems - HomeTheaterShack.com

View Poll Results: Ten Biggest Audio Lies: Agree or Disagree (If you disagree, you must explain why!) Votes are public!
I agree with all of them. (If you vote here... do not vote again.) 131 44.26%
I disagree with all of them. (If you vote here... do not vote again.) 11 3.72%
1. The Cable Lie: Agree 106 35.81%
1. The Cable Lie: Disagree 37 12.50%
2. The Vacuum-Tube Lie: Agree 55 18.58%
2. The Vacuum-Tube Lie: Disagree 61 20.61%
3. The Antidigital Lie: Agree 70 23.65%
3. The Antidigital Lie: Disagree 43 14.53%
4. The Listening-Test Lie: Agree 79 26.69%
4. The Listening-Test Lie: Disagree 34 11.49%
5. The Feedback Lie: Agree 72 24.32%
5. The Feedback Lie: Disagree 29 9.80%
6. The Burn-In Lie: Agree 85 28.72%
6. The Burn-In Lie: Disagree 37 12.50%
7. The Biwiring Lie: Agree 78 26.35%
7. The Biwiring Lie: Disagree 34 11.49%
8. The Power Conditioner Lie: Agree 76 25.68%
8. The Power Conditioner Lie: Disagree 41 13.85%
9. The CD Treatment Lie: Agree 94 31.76%
9. The CD Treatment Lie: Disagree 25 8.45%
10: The Golden Ear Lie: Agree 81 27.36%
10: The Golden Ear Lie: Disagree 31 10.47%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 296. You may not vote on this poll

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post #131 of 287 Old 04-27-12, 07:24 AM
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Re: The Ten Biggest Lies in Audio

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Very interesting to see the split regarding tubes. It is surprising that so many people still prefer distortion being added to their recordings. The mind is more powerful than any of the lies and it can make you feel anything at any given time. The placebo effect is real. I know I am not the only one that thinks my car drives better when it is clean.
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This is a very misunderstood area of recording and mixing. I often intentionally add distortion to vocals or instruments to add harmonics that did not previously exist, to give the part more "bite" or definition without increasing its level, resorting to changing it with EQ or altering the dynamics with compression. In fact some "character" compressors and EQs are used because the distortion they add gives a "sound", a character to a vocal or instrument part.

I suspect that the aspect under scrutiny is the use of valves in playback power amplification, in which case this is blanket change in addition to the vision of the mixer and the mastering engineer of the source material, but the intentional addition of distortion artifacts to audio at the recording and mixing stages is a very common practice


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post #132 of 287 Old 05-08-12, 12:13 AM
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Re: The Ten Biggest Lies in Audio

I've had sounding albums and CDs, I will never pay $1000 for a ten foot speaker cable, tubes are too expensive for me, and at my age, most of the high freqs are invisible to me and almost everyone else over 30... LOL

If you don't believe me about the high freqs, download the mosquito ringtone for an iPhone and play it near a teenager or young adult. They will hear it every time and you'll swear there,s nothing there (I think it's 17 KHz)...
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post #133 of 287 Old 07-16-12, 12:33 PM
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Re: The Ten Biggest Lies in Audio

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Most of the "lies" I generally agree with, but nearly all of them has some caveat that needs to be considered or some degree of truth to it. The problem is that rather than getting to the bottom of why people experience what they feel they do, one side wants to promote the idea as the be-all and end-all and the other side is bent on proving them wrong.

Science that starts with the goal of disproving lies is as wrong as the lies themselves. It may seem to justify self-righteousness, but it simply polarizes. In most of the debates and arguments about these issues that I have experienced, there is more interest in proving one's point than interest in learning, discovery, and the search.
The above I do agree with.

To accord with my checkmarks, I offer the following to balance the arguments a bit:

I like vacuum tubes because I believe in euphonics. I remember wandering in to The Natural Sound and finding a pair of B&W 801s set up in the middle of the floor, wired and ready to go. No one was around, so I cued up a copy of "Let It Bleed". Yuch! Really, I didn't want to know the Stones were recorded that poorly. If tubes can make bad stuff sound good, so I can concentrate on the performance and ignore the recording, that's worth a little accuracy in my book, and goes at least double for home theater.

Antidigital lie?!? What about the digital lie, "Perfect sound forever!" It's been shown CDs are not archival, and may not even last ten years. And once "digital" became a buzzword, they foisted MP3s on us, and an entire generation swallowed them without flinching.

True, if you have $8000 monoblocks, you don't need power conditioning for your amplifiers. But I think most people's gear, in most parts of the world, might benefit from a little voltage regulation and filtering.

As far as Golden Ears go... sure, there are folks in the business that set themselves up as cult leaders. But everyone does not hear the same, nor respond the same to what they do hear. I noticed long ago, flat frequency response is totally lost on some people, while others are not impressed by time alignment. Apparently our ears are not only sensitive to different things, they also auto-correct different things. As I implied earlier, while perfect reproduction is the goal, we're not there yet, and what's "best" for each of us will depend on what allows us to maintain our personal "suspension of disbelief". Me, I like big and I need loud. My wife on the other hand, is perfectly willing to believe there's an orchestra in that little box, and it's playing the fortissimo parts softly.
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post #134 of 287 Old 07-18-12, 12:29 PM
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Re: The Ten Biggest Lies in Audio

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It's been shown CDs are not archival, and may not even last ten years.
I had heard that about laserdiscs several years ago and knew that CD-Rs may not last. However, I still have a few of the CDs that I purchased with my first player in 1982 (Sony CDP-100) - they play fine.

I surely don't miss the pops and ticks of vinyl. I cringe when I hear a pop or R&B song that intentionally added that stuff in. I use to spend much time trying to eliminate that and don't understand why someone thinks it is "cool" now

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post #135 of 287 Old 07-18-12, 08:15 PM
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Re: The Ten Biggest Lies in Audio

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I had heard that about laserdiscs several years ago and knew that CD-Rs may not last. However, I still have a few of the CDs that I purchased with my first player in 1982 (Sony CDP-100) - they play fine.

I surely don't miss the pops and ticks of vinyl. I cringe when I hear a pop or R&B song that intentionally added that stuff in. I use to spend much time trying to eliminate that and don't understand why someone thinks it is "cool" now
That sounds exactly like something else I have heard about rap/r&b songs. I remember reading something about intentional bass distortion being added in to mimic the sounds of old boomboxes from the early rap days. Rediculous!


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post #136 of 287 Old 07-19-12, 05:53 PM
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Re: The Ten Biggest Lies in Audio

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I had heard that about laserdiscs several years ago and knew that CD-Rs may not last. However, I still have a few of the CDs that I purchased with my first player in 1982 (Sony CDP-100) - they play fine.
I have some CDs from the '80s that no longer play (and I always treated them as carefully as vinyl). Hardly a 'significant statistic', though. You prompted me to do some research, and it seems the "ten year" projection does, as you suggested, apply to CD-Rs. Commercial CDs are obviously more durable, but while the material of the disc itself may be bullet-proof, the information on it isn't child-proof.

Anyway, hope I didn't scare anyone unduly.
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post #137 of 287 Old 07-20-12, 12:16 PM
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I have some DVD-Rs of home video that no longer play. Thankfully I have them backed up to two external hard drives.

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post #138 of 287 Old 08-23-12, 12:57 AM
 
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Re: The Ten Biggest Lies in Audio

Some item I can't agree it.
Because sound feel the emotion. So for example, the music played by vacuum is so wram and feels good.
Feeling id different between golded ear and Usually people. we have to assent it.
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post #139 of 287 Old 08-30-12, 08:44 AM
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Re: The Ten Biggest Lies in Audio

I guess I didn't get the poll... I dont think cables can make a difference so I voted I dissagree with the cable lie.Did I vote right,according to my belief
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post #140 of 287 Old 09-04-12, 01:48 PM
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Re: The Ten Biggest Lies in Audio

I have a BSEE (Electrical Engineering) and one thing that cannot be overridden is Ohms Law! It's a simple concept. The larger the conductor diameter, the less resistance, therefore it can carry more current with less losses. This is true up to a point, then you reach a point of diminishing returns. The only way to get zero losses is to have a superconductor cooled to absolute zero temperature (not possible) so the closer you get to absolute zero, the less losses.

I (current) = V (voltage) / R (resistance)

So the less resistance, the more current passes through the conductor.
All this nonsense that made Monster Cable rich is bunk! If you use a 14AW (American Wire) gauge size wire instead of 18 gauge (zip cord), you will have less current losses. Most wire from the amp to the speakers are about 10ft. run. If you use a 16 or 14 gauge wire, it will have a minimal effect on this short of distance.

As far as the skin effect, it applies mostly to high frequency RF. I was a amateur radio operator and the skin effect starts taking into consideration in megahertz ranges. At audio frequencies, it absolutely has no effect! At higher frequencies (in megahertz and gigahertz range) electrons migrate towards the surface of the conductor, so the diameter of the conductor has a larger effect. This is why you see hollow tubes (called waveguides) used as conductors in the gigahertz range, such as radar. They are actually hollow, since there's no reason to have a center conductor in these frequency ranges.

As far as interconnect, "The Prof" is correct. All interconnects present a combination of inductance and capacitance called reactance, to the two units coupled with them. If anyone hears a difference, it's only because each cable has different reactance (capacitance and inductance) value which makes the amp or preamp sound different. It all depends what sound you favor as to what you hear, better or worse, it's just an opinion.

If you all remember the fairytale about the Emperors New Clothes: nobody wanted to admit he was naked for fear of other's thinking they are not knowledgeable.

My 50 years of knowledge of physics and electronics and common sense (not so common anymore) had saved me countless thousands of dollars over the years.

The final judge is what the music sound like compared to live source. Comparing it to another audio system is not valid because they all have colorization to the sound. It's just which one you prefer over the other, not which one is better or worse.

Last edited by NotBananas; 09-04-12 at 01:54 PM.
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