HTS-X3 & HTS-X4 - experimental N9 reflective screen mixes. - Page 2 - Home Theater Forum and Systems - HomeTheaterShack.com

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post #11 of 26 Old 01-10-10, 07:52 PM Thread Starter
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Don
 
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Re: HTS-X3 & HTS-X4 - experimental N9 reflective screen mixes.

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Altern8 wrote: View Post
The black I'm using is this one. RGB is 54 53 53.

I don't ever intend to use this in a real screen paint. I just want to make a non-reflective matt paint to compare with HTS-X mixes and assess the effectiveness of the mica.

I will send samples to both you and Mech soon!
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post #12 of 26 Old 01-29-10, 02:36 AM
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Re: HTS-X3 & HTS-X4 - experimental N9 reflective screen mixes.

I have not forgotten about this!

Been really busy with work and my first efforts were hampered with poor spraying technique.

Will get back into this this weekend. I have a few things I want to try so will delay sending any samples to you guys until I have a full set (including some BW and Dulux Half Ellen).
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post #13 of 26 Old 05-02-10, 08:08 AM
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Re: HTS-X3 & HTS-X4 - experimental N9 reflective screen mixes.

Hi Guys,

First of all, can I just say that this is an amazing resource for people everywhere in the world who are looking at doing their own screens... I don't think i've ever seen quite a dedicated bunch of people who are just doing something (ie this) for a hobby!! great stuff...

Ok, back to business... I have a new epson 705hd (2500lumen), in a room with reasonable ambient light (its a living room). hence I am looking for your Scorpion N8 mix... ie a 50:50 mix of your formidable BW and C&S receipes.

Trouble is..... I'm in Perth, Australia So sourcing everything is a problem.

I have prepped my wall with Dulux Ultrasmooth Acrylic Sealer Undercoat.

WRT Black Widow, I plan on using Dulux Wash N Wear 101 Advanced Flat tinted Half Ellen, and I can source the AAA from Bunbury or Adelaide.

The C&S is a bit more difficult though... so I am thinking of substituting C&S with another N9 mix, ie your HTS-X4. I haven't visited any stores to see whether the Liquitex products you have prescribed are available, but it seems like Altern8 may have had some luck. So... it looks like this might be the way to go, considering there is not an Aussie equivalent of the unique CSMS.

SO... my question is this - do you think there would be any issues with me doing a 50:50 mix of this experimental HTS-X4, with Black Widow?

I'm thinking not.. but then again, I am very new to this painted screen game, and you are all gods in this field Thanks in advance... any words of wisdom are well appreciated!
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post #14 of 26 Old 05-02-10, 01:34 PM Thread Starter
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Re: HTS-X3 & HTS-X4 - experimental N9 reflective screen mixes.

Hi B-rad, welcome to the forum!

Thank you for all of the compliments. We are serious about understanding how screens work and how to match, or exceed, commercial screen performance with relatively simple paint mixes that just about anyone can make (assuming they can get the components).

You should have no problems making BW Down Under. C&S is another matter, as you have found out. The Craft Smart Metallic Silver used to make it has turned out to be a rather singular paint, all of the paints we have found that might replace it (very few) also have the same limitation of being U.S.-only paints. The HTS-X4 mix is the closest we have come to an international version of C&S.

I see no reason at all why HTS-X4 could not be substituted for C&S in making Scorpion N8.

While I would recommend the Liquitex BASICS MATT paints be use to make your HTS-X4 C&S substitute, since you are going to be mixing the HTS-X4 with flat paint (the BW mix), you might, just might, be able to get by making your HTS-X4 with the regular BASICS paints that have more gloss than their MATT siblings, if the MATT paints are hard to find.

After checking out your PJ, depending on how large a screen you want you might not even need to go with a reflective mix. That is one bright PJ! Even in Theater Mode it's still shooting 1620 lumens (1280 in Eco mode). What size screen are you making?
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post #15 of 26 Old 05-02-10, 07:02 PM
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Re: HTS-X3 & HTS-X4 - experimental N9 reflective screen mixes.

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Harpmaker wrote: View Post
Hi B-rad, welcome to the forum!
After checking out your PJ, depending on how large a screen you want you might not even need to go with a reflective mix. That is one bright PJ! Even in Theater Mode it's still shooting 1620 lumens (1280 in Eco mode). What size screen are you making?
Thanks very much for all your assistance. Hopefully other Australians can draw on this advice as well.

My screen size defies all expert logic, and is rather large... Unfortunately I am at work right now and cannot measure it, but it is approximately 3 metres wide by 2 metres high (WXGA). I know this isnt ideal, but everyone seems to prefer the larger size....I guess I'm still in the honeymoon phase of owning one . Because the screen is located in a multi-purpose room, I am currently also going against recommendations, and will be painting the whole wall (5mx2.7m), with no black border planned right now.

Yes, the projector is rather bright .... and I do use it primarily at night (which, when combined with my newly tinted windows, does provide a near-dark environment).

The problem with this projector, however (and my reason for going with a grey mix), is because the 705hd has horrible black levels. To be honest, I don't mind THAT much, because the projector will be used for movies only 30% of the time (equally shared with TV and xbox).

So are you thinking that the Scorpion with BW:HTS-X4 might not be the ideal mix? Or should I compromise and go with Prof's much more obtainable (in Australia's) Silver Pearl(tm)?

Apologies if this is now moving off-topic.... please feel free to relocate my thread if necessary.
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post #16 of 26 Old 05-02-10, 09:45 PM Thread Starter
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Re: HTS-X3 & HTS-X4 - experimental N9 reflective screen mixes.

Thanks for understanding if this portion of the thread should be moved to it's own thread in the future, but for now I think it can stay here.

Yep, that's a big screen you got there! The good news is your PJ can handle it. Assuming a screen 322 cm wide and 200 cm tall (377 diagonal), you are still hitting it with between 16 and 18 fL. (depending on how far away your PJ is from the screen) according to PJC's calculator. I'm not really sure where they get those figures since doing the math manually gives the lowest brightness as being 18.5 fL. using Theater Mode and Eco Mode.

At these lumen levels I would think that you could simply use BW™ instead of Scorpion™ N8; while the N0.5 brightness difference between these mixes is visible, it isn't a "day and night" difference, and you wouldn't have to bother with making the HTS-X4 mix.

Since this is the Developer's forum I'll post several test photos I've taken for another experimental mix. Please forgive the rough nature of the photos, they really weren't meant to be displayed publically, but I think they are apropos to what we are talking about in terms of screen shade comparisons. The panels are just screwed to my "wall of many grays" where I paint panels.

The panels in the photos are a version of RS-MaxxMudd (a reflective N8.7 mix from another forum) and Aurora™ N6.6 (a mix that will be international in scope and also made with Liquitex paints). I had no specific reason in using the RSMM panel to compare to the Aurora™ panel, it just happened to be the "light" panel I had at hand.

Room light: There is a N2.1 difference between the panels!


100IRE White: Projector shooting full white image; the apparent shade difference between panels lessens due to the directional nature of the projector beam and the reflectiveness of the panels.


DVE Space shuttle: The PJ is set for using a darker screen so highlights in the top panel will suffer a bit.


DVE American flag: Notice how the top panel looks washed out even with all room lights off.


5th Element hold-up: The bottom panel is darker than what the PJ is set for so shadows will suffer a bit.


5th Element cat: It surprised me how well the highlights stayed visible in the white cat on the dark panel.



The point of this is to show that a N0.5 difference isn't all that great for comparable reflective screens. It's more an aspect of fine-tuning than a day-and-night difference (which the above photos were ).
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post #17 of 26 Old 05-02-10, 10:51 PM
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Re: HTS-X3 & HTS-X4 - experimental N9 reflective screen mixes.

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The point of this is to show that a N0.5 difference isn't all that great for comparable reflective screens. It's more an aspect of fine-tuning than a day-and-night difference (which the above photos were ).
Great point.

The effort factor in trying to find a comparable C&S mix probably is not worth the minor difference in output....so you have me sold. BW it is!!

Thanks again so much for your assistance!!! Hopefully i'll be able to post up some pics of the finished product in case anyone else is interested.
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post #18 of 26 Old 05-03-10, 12:02 AM Thread Starter
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Re: HTS-X3 & HTS-X4 - experimental N9 reflective screen mixes.

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bradharvey wrote: View Post
Thanks again so much for your assistance!!! Hopefully i'll be able to post up some pics of the finished product in case anyone else is interested.
No worries! We do what we do for our own curiosities, but we post our results so that others may benefit as well.

Photos would be greatly appreciated!

Also, I got so wrapped up in posting those photos that I forgot to mention Prof's Silver Pearl mix. I wouldn't recommend that mix for you since not only is it a very light mix (not good for fighting ambient light), but it is also a layered screen solution, not a simple homogeneous mix, thus it takes more effort to apply.

Good Luck on your project!
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post #19 of 26 Old 07-24-10, 12:02 PM
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Re: HTS-X3 & HTS-X4 - experimental N9 reflective screen mixes.

Hi all

Loooooooooooong time no see. But life goes on as they say. And it is fantastic to see you guys still in the frontline of objective screen material testing and development.

My family and I are still enjoying our Bat-Cave-black painted-HT-room with just a high quility white paint screen. Our SONY VPL-HS60 is going on its fourth year and I just ordered a new bulb (just in case).

Anyhow...as it seems we sometimes have guests playing Playstation3 games. In that situation we occationally open up curtains etc...hence..let in some light.

As a development-bug-bitten cinema devotee I am very happy to see you spotted paint available even in Sweden.

Question. Have you guys spectroed the X3 or X4? I cant find it in the spectro database of yours
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post #20 of 26 Old 07-24-10, 01:24 PM Thread Starter
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Re: HTS-X3 & HTS-X4 - experimental N9 reflective screen mixes.

Welcome back Robert!

Yeah, we're still plugging away at screen mixes, but none of us seem to have as much spare time as we used to so things move slowly.

The good news is that the HTS-X3 and HTS-X4 mixes can be made is almost any country in the world, the bad news is that since they are 100% Liquitex artist paints these mixes will almost certainly be more expensive than regular house paints. But even better news is that they will still cost less than commercial screen paints and will also be more color neutral.

I did spectro these mixes, but my PC recently died and due to using a non-standard hard drive controller recovering the data is not as simple as plugging the drive into the new PC. While I do have the spectro data backed up to DVD/flash my organizational skills are stone-age and I haven't found it yet.

I do remember that these mixes are neutral, one of them is the most neutral mix or paint I have ever seen.
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