Cream&Sugar™ Ultra development thread. - Home Theater Forum and Systems - HomeTheaterShack.com

 
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post #1 of 10 Old 02-17-11, 07:33 PM Thread Starter
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Cream&Sugar™ Ultra development thread.

It was recently brought to our attention that the metallic silver paint used to make our Cream&Sugar™ screen mix had changed to a new stock number and a new bottle. I picked some up and found that the paint itself has changed and it will no longer work for making a N9 screen mix. There is still some bottles of the old Craft Smart Metallic Silver to be had, but when that is gone the original C&S™ formulae will no longer be viable.

The pending demise of the silver paint used in C&S™ also means that the formulae for Scorpion™ and Elektra™ will be affected as well. When it rains it pours... The good news is that we have been researching a way to make C&S an international mix similar to Black Widow™ (there may be a country where the ingredients for BW™ can't be obtained, but we haven't found one yet ). The silver paint that seems to be the leading contender is Liquitex BASICS 'Silver' paint. It turns out that using this paint with Valspar white paint makes a mix that is quite neutral right out of the gate. So, without further ado...

Cream&Sugar™ Ultra: a N9 screen mix.

Please keep firmly in mind that this is a DEVELOPMENT thread and the mixes shown are NOT mixes ready for prime time. Testing still needs to be done to see if they are too reflective, or even if they are reflective enough.

The mix we are concentrating on will use Valspar Ultra Premium Interior Flat Finish #94906 paint as the white part and Liquitex BASICS 'Silver' paint as the reflective part.

The mix ratio is 1:1 (half white paint and half silver paint).

Please be aware that the Valspar paint we are using is labeled as a 'White' paint. There is an 'Ultra White' that looks identical except for the can reading 'Ultra White' in small print and having being stock #73035. DO NOT use this paint to make Cream&Sugar™ Ultra! The resulting mix will be too bright and any contrast enhancement will be compromised compared to a mix made with the correct paint. We have other plans for this paint.

There you have it folks. More data as we get it.

Last edited by Harpmaker; 02-27-11 at 11:20 PM. Reason: Corrected base paint stock numbers, had them reversed!
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post #2 of 10 Old 02-27-11, 11:28 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Cream&Sugar™ Ultra development thread.

We are getting closer to having this finalized. When we do we will need to have someone interested in this mix act as a beta tester to see if it can be successfully rolled (which we expect it can). Both Mech and I are sprayers and Bill can't make any screens for awhile due to other matters.

Also, in case you missed it, I had to correct the mix base paint info in the post above. I got the stock numbers reversed! Correction has been made.
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post #3 of 10 Old 03-14-11, 10:49 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Cream&Sugar™ Ultra development thread.

Since the last posting a lot of development has gone into the C&S™ Ultra mix. The base paint has changed back to the same base used to make the old Cream&Sugar™ mix, BUT the tint has changed. The paint is Valspar Ultra Premium Interior Latex Flat Enamel Base 1 with the following tint and amount - 115-0.67 for a quart of paint. It is still mixed with Liquitex BASICS 'Silver' in a 1:1 ratio.

What I suspect would be the normal amount made would be as follows:

1 quart Valspar Ultra Premium Interior Latex Flat Enamel Base 1 tinted 115-0.67 (I'll post a photo of the can label tomorrow)
16 fl. oz. Liquitex BASICS 'Silver' acrylic paint (four 4 oz. tubes or two 8 oz. tubs)

Now the tricky part. Since the mix is 1:1 that means only 16 oz. of the quart of Valspar paint is used, to which is mixed the 16 oz. of LBS (Liquitex BASICS 'Silver'). While you could just add 32 oz. of LBS to the quart of Valspar paint, LBS is a fairly expensive paint and it would make way more mix than most people would need.

Because the LBS is so thick the mix DOES NEED TO BE THINNED, even to roll. For those rolling I would recommend adding at least 25% distilled water; those spraying would have to dilute even more depending on their sprayer. Add the water and mix thoroughly, this mix is slow to accept the added water.

For what I will assume would be the standard C&S™ Ultra mix of 16 oz. Valspar and 16 oz. LBS that means an additional 8 oz. of water should be added to thin for rolling. It would be a good idea to also use some of this water to wash out your containers of LBS to get all the paint out. If you are using the 8 oz. tubs of LBS simply pour the water into the tub, cover and shake. If using 4 oz. tubes of LBS I found it works best to inject the water into the almost empty tube with some kind of syringe, close the lid and shake WELL.

This Cream&Sugar™ Ultra mix will be a bit brighter than the old Cream&Sugar™ (N9.2 vs N9). If enough interest is generated in darkening the mix down to N9 (the difference is small but visible) I suspect we will add that mix to our Elektra™ series.
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post #4 of 10 Old 03-26-11, 10:59 AM
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Re: Cream&Sugar™ Ultra development thread.

I can't wait to try the mix. I can't seem to find Liquitex basics locally, however I can find the "pro" heavy version. The retailer I spoke with said the difference is there is more pigment in the heavy and so one would need less, but that doesn't necessarily translate into your formula well. Also the only silver I can find is "iridescent silver". Is this the correct one? Thanks guys for your research.

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post #5 of 10 Old 03-26-11, 11:22 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Cream&Sugar™ Ultra development thread.

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kadijk wrote: View Post
I can't wait to try the mix. I can't seem to find Liquitex basics locally, however I can find the "pro" heavy version. The retailer I spoke with said the difference is there is more pigment in the heavy and so one would need less, but that doesn't necessarily translate into your formula well. Also the only silver I can find is "iridescent silver". Is this the correct one? Thanks guys for your research.
Sorry, but no, the "heavy body" Liquitex paints haven't been tested in screen mixes for two reasons - cost and thickness. They are more expensive than the Liquitex BASICS line of paints and they are also WAY thicker; it would be a huge mess trying to get them out of the tube and thinned to the correct consistency for rolling or spraying. Also, by the time the heavy body paint would be thinned enough with water to be useful to us it would almost certainly have LESS pigment than the "lesser quality" student paint. Another reason is gloss level, the heavy body paints are usually quite glossy; which we don't want in a screen paint.

While the heavy body paints may have slightly more pigment in them the main reason they are thicker than the "soft body" and BASICS lines of paint is because they are designed to be, which is done by simply using a thicker medium to mix the pigment with. This is done to prevent the paint from sagging when applied thickly on a vertical surface.

If the shop carries Liquitex paints they should have their BASICS line of paints somewhere in the store, but if not they should at least be able to order them for you.

Thank you for having an interest in our screen mixes.
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post #6 of 10 Old 04-10-11, 03:03 AM
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I am wondering if you have had a chance to do any development with other brands of paint? Valspar is tough to find in Canada, but home depot is readily available as is Benjamin Moore. Do they interchange with the valspar?

Kadijk


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post #7 of 10 Old 04-10-11, 02:28 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Cream&Sugar™ Ultra development thread.

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I am wondering if you have had a chance to do any development with other brands of paint? Valspar is tough to find in Canada, but home depot is readily available as is Benjamin Moore. Do they interchange with the valspar?
I drive by a Lowe's store (Valspar) at least once a week, but my Home Depot (Behr and Glidden) is south of me and I only get to it once or twice a month.

I'll try to get a match for the C&S™ Ultra base paint from Home Depot ASAP.
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post #8 of 10 Old 04-10-11, 03:00 PM
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How is a match achieved? I can enquire at my local Benjamin Moore as well if it's simple...

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post #9 of 10 Old 04-10-11, 03:45 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Cream&Sugar™ Ultra development thread.

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How is a match achieved? I can enquire at my local Benjamin Moore as well if it's simple...
Sometimes matching a base color is relatively simple and other times it can be a real pain to achieve. In the case of the C&S™ Ultra base I would think it would be fairly simple (but I've been wrong before).

One of the problems with achieving the tinted bases of the C&S™ mixes has been the very small amounts of tint needed per quart. Back when I was developing the base for the original C&S™ #3 base (the only tinted base of the original mixes) I had a hard time of it because when I tried to have the sample I made up by hand color-matched, the Lowe's computer told the salesperson to just sell me white paint! The Home Depot computer did give a tint formula to match it and I later extrapolated that for use with Valspar.

The tint formula for the C&S™ Ultra base calls for 0.67 of 1/48th of an ounce of Magenta tint per quart. When I get this formula made up in Glidden paint I'll try the formula of 5/384th of Magenta per quart. This is slightly less tint than the Valspar formula, but I'm hoping it will still work.

The problem with matching this formula in BM paint is that I think it is still mixed using the older method that only uses "shots" and "half shots" of tint which equal 1/48th ounce and 1/96th ounce respectively. About the closest you could get with this method is to use 1 "half shot" of Magenta per quart of white paint. This may work, but not all white paints are made the same and different brands of paint use different brands of tint (a highly concentrated pigment in a base that is compatible with both oil and water based paints). The only way to check is to get some and measure it with our spectrophotometers.

Right about now I bet you're sorry you asked aren't ya?
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post #10 of 10 Old 04-10-11, 04:33 PM
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Not at all... However I will patiently wait for your testing simply because I lack the expertise and equipment to do these things. I'm in no rush, just excited because I was able to acquire the liquitex silver that is needed for c&s ultra

Kadijk


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