Titanium Sintra Development - Page 2 - Home Theater Forum and Systems - HomeTheaterShack.com

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post #11 of 26 Old 11-08-11, 12:12 PM
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Re: Titanium Sintra Development

Interesting :-) and with some data to boot.
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post #12 of 26 Old 11-09-11, 12:29 PM Thread Starter
Nak
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Re: Titanium Sintra Development

I painted a 1' x 4' sample of Sherwin-Williams ProClassic Smooth Enamel Satin Extra White. I found this article: http://www.projectorcentral.com/paint_perfect_screen_$100.htm , so it seemed like a good first choice. I'll add the color analysis and screen shots later, when I have more comparisons. Long story short, good, but not as good as Titanium Sintra. Color neutrality virtually identical, Blacks dead even, Titanium Sintra has brighter colors and whites. By a fair margin too, very noticeable. Ambient performance appears to be identical.

Comparisons against a super secret white paint, WA DW, and Carrada BW coming.
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post #13 of 26 Old 11-09-11, 02:06 PM
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Re: Titanium Sintra Development

Looking forward to the future comparisons Nak!

I will have to admit to being disappointed by that article at Projector Central since they did almost everything "by eye" without bothering to do any actual objective testing with instrumentation . I know that most people will say "hey, I don't watch my movies with a colorimeter or spectrophotometer beside me, it's what MY EYES see that is important to me!". While that is a true statement, the human eye makes a VERY poor colorimeter or light meter. The author said "... the Behr imparted a more obvious color imbalance, biased toward blue"; I find that quite interesting since NO sample of Behr white paint that I have ever gotten has ever pushed blue. It has always been extremely close to the Valspar Ultra Premium enamel white (so close they are interchangeable in a screen mix) and both whites have always measured "warm". It would have really helped for PC to have included at least CIELAB color data, if not a full spectral chart, to back their claims.

One more thing to clear up about that article. Speaking of the difference between their StuidoTek 100 and the ProClassic Smooth Enamel Satin Finish screen they said "A spot meter confirmed what we could already see--white highlights were brighter by about 10%, and blacks were blacker by about 10%". The reason why this could be is because the SW 'Extra White' color is NOT an "ultra white" paint, but is a very, very light gray; this would give deeper blacks over a bright white screen. The added whiteness (or rather brightness) would be due to the SW paint being a satin finish having more gloss than the matte StudioTek thus more on-axis gain.

And I still say they couldn't actually detect a +- 10% brightness change with the naked eye.
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post #14 of 26 Old 11-09-11, 09:08 PM Thread Starter
Nak
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Re: Titanium Sintra Development

Good info Harpmaker, thanks!

The SW paint was 94 L on the L*a*b* scale; my understanding is that makes it a n9.4 shade? Or am I off base there? For an off the shelf white, it wouldn't be bad I think. Even though it's a Satin finish there is absolutely no hotspotting on it. Like I said though, the TS is obviously brighter. For my purposes that's important; I'm trying to wring every last ftL I can out of a screen. What white paint would you reccomend I compare? I'm thinking of mixing up some C&S Ultra, just so we can get a good reference against a known quantity. On the C&S Ultra, is that the matt Liquitex silver basics? On the other hand, perhaps the comparison against the WA DW and the Carrada BW will be enough. One white against another...
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post #15 of 26 Old 11-09-11, 10:56 PM
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Re: Titanium Sintra Development

Quote:
Nak wrote: View Post
Good info Harpmaker, thanks!

The SW paint was 94 L on the L*a*b* scale; my understanding is that makes it a n9.4 shade? Or am I off base there?
It is also my understanding is that the Munsell N values are the CIELAB L* values divided by 10; in fact, I just read that again somewhere, but forget exactly where (I read too much - one link leads to another and that to another...).

Quote:
For an off the shelf white, it wouldn't be bad I think. Even though it's a Satin finish there is absolutely no hotspotting on it. Like I said though, the TS is obviously brighter. For my purposes that's important; I'm trying to wring every last ftL I can out of a screen. What white paint would you reccomend I compare?
All of the "white" paints (called 'Ultra White' by a few brands) I have measured have all been around N9.7 regardless of brand (including Liq. BASICS Titanium White). The most neutral white I have measured was Glidden Premium (from Home Depot) with a CIELAB of 96.42, -0.83, 0.72. The brightest was Valspar Ultra Premium 'Ultra White' 97.59, -0.78 , 2.53. In my experience it would be very hard to tell these two screens apart in side-by-side testing accept for the Valspar being warmer in color.

BTW the readings I have for white commercial screens are:
Stewart SnoMatte/StudioTek 100 gain 1.0: 96.07, -0.96, 1.76
Stewart StudioTek 130 G3 gain 1.3: 94.85, -0.82, 3.59
Stewart UltraMatte 150 gain 1.5: 94.76, -0.59, 2.97

The brightest target I have ever measured was a block of magnesium carbonate at 99.60, -0.69, 3.31.

All our specto readings are at a D65 white point using a 2 Observer.


Quote:
I'm thinking of mixing up some C&S Ultra, just so we can get a good reference against a known quantity. On the C&S Ultra, is that the matt Liquitex silver basics?
C&S™ Ultra uses the regular satin finish BASICS Silver.

Quote:
On the other hand, perhaps the comparison against the WA DW and the Carrada BW will be enough. One white against another...
It's probably best to compare whites to each other and C&S™ Ultra is a very light gray, but whatever you choose to do is fine with me.
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post #16 of 26 Old 11-10-11, 09:02 PM Thread Starter
Nak
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Re: Titanium Sintra Development

Got my WilsonArt Designer White sample today... Wow, not really impressed. VERY color neutral, which is nice, but it hotspots at least as bad as the Sintra. Plus, there's a "shimmery" look in the hotspot that makes it even worse.

Gain wise, it's hard to say. Outside of the hotspot, it looks like the TS is brighter. I think I shouldn't trust my eyes though, as the color difference could be throwing off my perception. I will say that I don't think the DW is any brighter than the TS, and it seems to be a bit dimmer.

It does show though how big a difference a color neutral screen makes. If I didn't have a way to fully calibrate my PJ, I think I'd be hesitant to go with the TS. However, it's close enough that it'll be easy to calibrate. I'd rather a screen be deficient in blue than in red, as bulbs lose more red over time. Of course, color neutral is preferable, but with a full CMS I'm more concerned about wringing out every last ftL.

I thought the WA DW was supposed to be a good screen? Is it possible that it's changed? I mean, it's a really bad hotspot.
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post #17 of 26 Old 11-11-11, 10:01 PM
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Re: Titanium Sintra Development

Quote:
Harpmaker wrote: View Post
Looking forward to the future comparisons Nak!

I will have to admit to being disappointed by that article at Projector Central since they did almost everything "by eye" without bothering to do any actual objective testing with instrumentation . I know that most people will say "hey, I don't watch my movies with a colorimeter or spectrophotometer beside me, it's what MY EYES see that is important to me!". While that is a true statement, the human eye makes a VERY poor colorimeter or light meter. The author said "... the Behr imparted a more obvious color imbalance, biased toward blue"; I find that quite interesting since NO sample of Behr white paint that I have ever gotten has ever pushed blue. It has always been extremely close to the Valspar Ultra Premium enamel white (so close they are interchangeable in a screen mix) and both whites have always measured "warm". It would have really helped for PC to have included at least CIELAB color data, if not a full spectral chart, to back their claims.

One more thing to clear up about that article. Speaking of the difference between their StuidoTek 100 and the ProClassic Smooth Enamel Satin Finish screen they said "A spot meter confirmed what we could already see--white highlights were brighter by about 10%, and blacks were blacker by about 10%". The reason why this could be is because the SW 'Extra White' color is NOT an "ultra white" paint, but is a very, very light gray; this would give deeper blacks over a bright white screen. The added whiteness (or rather brightness) would be due to the SW paint being a satin finish having more gloss than the matte StudioTek thus more on-axis gain.

And I still say they couldn't actually detect a +- 10% brightness change with the naked eye.
When I first read PJC, I thought Evan knew what he was talking about. After a short time, I realized that his articles were pretty generic and his knowledge of the subject somewhat remedial. There are a handful of good and knowledgeable reviewers out there. Unfortunately they don't get the spotlight as much as PJC.
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post #18 of 26 Old 11-12-11, 07:20 PM Thread Starter
Nak
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Re: Titanium Sintra Development

I recieved my sample of Carada Brilliant White yesterday. I am VERY pleased with the comparison to Titanium Sintra. The BW is advertised as 1.4 gain, and has been tested here I believe at 1.3? At any rate, here's my initial observations.

TS is slightly closer to color neutral.
TS is very close to identical--if anything just a tiny bit brighter--at a direct viewing angle.
TS is CLEARLY brighter at off angle viewing. I didn't measure the angle, probably 45 to 50 degrees. As you increase the angle, TS becomes even brighter in comparison.
Blacks are indistinguishable between the two.

Again, I'll post graphs, data and pics later. It could be a while though as life is about to become very busy.

I'll still try and get another sample of WA DW, and I have one more paint sample to do. After that will come pics and graphs. For me though, I'm convinced. Titanium Sintra is precisely what I was looking for. I'll paint a new screen with it and do the comparison samples against the full screen.

Thanks to all for your help & advice! Maybe I can talk Mech into doing gain measurements? Whenever you have time?
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post #19 of 26 Old 11-13-11, 11:05 PM Thread Starter
Nak
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Re: Titanium Sintra Development

Thanks Mech! What size piece do you need?

Price, well, it depends how much you make. The Matt Medium runs about $16 for 32 oz, or 43 for a gallon. The Titanium White Basics runs about $15 for 32 oz or $10 for 16. so 3/4 gallon would be $42 plus shipping (2 32oz MM, 1 16oz TW, 16 oz water) 1.5 quarts would be about $23, and 1.5 Gallons would be $58. I don't imagine you'd need too much, I used 3 sprayed coats with a 1mm tip. I'll see how much I use when I spray my screen. Plus, of course, the cost of the Sintra.

The name? I guess Titanium Sintra works for me. I do want to paint a full screen before I get too excited though. I would think it would also work well for someone who put up a WA DW screen that turned out to be the wrong finish and hot spotted...
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post #20 of 26 Old 11-15-11, 11:43 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Titanium Sintra Development

Thanks Mech! PM me your address and I'll get it in the mail.
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