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post #11 of 96 Old 06-06-12, 05:27 PM
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Re: Making a darker Black Widow™

Great thread, I shall watch it closely
Here's some ideas I have mulled over for a while...

From what I can gather a screen for ambience light environments is a dark screen that on axis acts as a lighter screen, brighter picture than what the dark shade would normally allow.
To me, that sounds like more AAA could be an approach, allowing for a darker basepaint and still quite bright picture on axis.

I played around with darker mixes a while ago and found out that an increase in AAA concentration greatly increased picture brightness.
In my projectorsetup with wide screen and quite short throw I started to see hotspotting when I approaced 30% AAA so no higher than that would work for me.
I also found out that above 40% AAA the brightness of the hotspot area was the same no matter how dark I made the basepaint.
I did note that the paint surface had gain some gloss, I don't think it was the denser aluminum particles that caused the gloss, I'm thinking more the clear medium in the AAA.
I think this added gloss might bring on hotspotting at lower aluminum concentrations than if the clear medium in the AAA would be totally flat.
If one could separate the aluminium from the medium and use only the Al in the paint that could perhaps allow more Al before hotspotting occurs.

I seem to remember a thread somewhere where someone compared AAA and BlackJack Aluminium and found that AAA had some gloss where Blackjack had none, sadly there were some reports of blackjack perhaps not being stable enough and some paintcans had ignited.

I do also believe there are other problems with higher Al concentration such as graininess although I didn't see that much difference in appeared graininess when I tested mixes between 10 and 50% AAA, the latter hotspotted like crazy though.

Now, higher AAA concentrations might be a way to increase brightness, but if one can't control or keep down hotspotting there is little point considering it...
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post #12 of 96 Old 06-06-12, 09:35 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Making a darker Black Widow™

Quote:
Pyrometman wrote: View Post
Harpmaker,

I have a Lowes about 1.5 miles from where I work, so absolutely no problem getting Valspar. As for whether or not BW™ N6.4 will work better than a simple neutral gray, that's why I'm here
Glad to have you on board!

Quote:
How big do you like your samples to be for spectral analysis?
About one square inch is all we need.
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post #13 of 96 Old 06-06-12, 09:51 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Making a darker Black Widow™

Quote:
Henke wrote: View Post
Great thread, I shall watch it closely
Here's some ideas I have mulled over for a while...

From what I can gather a screen for ambience light environments is a dark screen that on axis acts as a lighter screen, brighter picture than what the dark shade would normally allow.
To me, that sounds like more AAA could be an approach, allowing for a darker basepaint and still quite bright picture on axis.

I played around with darker mixes a while ago and found out that an increase in AAA concentration greatly increased picture brightness.
In my projectorsetup with wide screen and quite short throw I started to see hotspotting when I approaced 30% AAA so no higher than that would work for me.
I also found out that above 40% AAA the brightness of the hotspot area was the same no matter how dark I made the basepaint.
I did note that the paint surface had gain some gloss, I don't think it was the denser aluminum particles that caused the gloss, I'm thinking more the clear medium in the AAA.
I think this added gloss might bring on hotspotting at lower aluminum concentrations than if the clear medium in the AAA would be totally flat.
If one could separate the aluminium from the medium and use only the Al in the paint that could perhaps allow more Al before hotspotting occurs.

I seem to remember a thread somewhere where someone compared AAA and BlackJack Aluminium and found that AAA had some gloss where Blackjack had none, sadly there were some reports of blackjack perhaps not being stable enough and some paintcans had ignited.

I do also believe there are other problems with higher Al concentration such as graininess although I didn't see that much difference in appeared graininess when I tested mixes between 10 and 50% AAA, the latter hotspotted like crazy though.

Now, higher AAA concentrations might be a way to increase brightness, but if one can't control or keep down hotspotting there is little point considering it...
Thanks for the observations and experimentation results!

I believe Mech found that increasing the amount of AAA-F produced a graininess in the image that was easy to see; can't remember if it hot spotted or not.

The thing about working with aluminum to increase gain is that one MUST use an existing paint and not dry Al flakes or powder, there is simply too great a risk of the aluminum producing an exothermic reaction and thus a fire potential. We have been very fortunate with AAA-F in that it has proven to be a safe paint in that respect and also that it is available almost world-wide. There is the possibility of using aluimnum particles designed to be added to automotive finishes, but I have a feeling these would be hard to source outside of the U.S..
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post #14 of 96 Old 06-08-12, 10:46 AM
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Re: Making a darker Black Widow™

I will probably be delayed for a weekend to paint BW™ N6.4. I still have not received my AAA and won't be able to get my screen substrate until Sunday. I should receive the new projector today and will take the time to get it properly mounted. I will have to fabricate the mount myself due to the mounting situation but I have all of the materials for that already.

Harp, any progress on the N5 paint?
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post #15 of 96 Old 06-08-12, 11:18 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Making a darker Black Widow™

Quote:
Pyrometman wrote: View Post
Harp, any progress on the N5 paint?
I intend on getting some paints tomorrow. The Valspar N5 formula I have now is only for the Valspar 8 oz. sample jars which only come in satin finish. I'll try getting some in Sherwin-Williams paint as well.
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post #16 of 96 Old 06-08-12, 12:52 PM
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Re: Making a darker Black Widow™

Quote:
Harpmaker wrote: View Post
I intend on getting some paints tomorrow. The Valspar N5 formula I have now is only for the Valspar 8 oz. sample jars which only come in satin finish. I'll try getting some in Sherwin-Williams paint as well.
Thanks Harp. I'll patiently wait for your recommendation.

In the meantime, I'm going to do an OTS trial of Sherwin Williams Shingle Gray (SW 7670) using their Pro-Classic Smooth Enamel Satin base (ala the ProjectorCentral.com article). My best guess is that the paint is near an N6. Their website shows it is R-149, G-148, B-148. Not sure how accurate that is but it will be worth getting a screen up to watch something on. Like I said, I like to push the limits.

If I like the image on this screen, I'm sure I'll like the BW™ N6.4.
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post #17 of 96 Old 06-08-12, 05:30 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Making a darker Black Widow™

Quote:
Pyrometman wrote: View Post
Thanks Harp. I'll patiently wait for your recommendation.

In the meantime, I'm going to do an OTS trial of Sherwin Williams Shingle Gray (SW 7670) using their Pro-Classic Smooth Enamel Satin base (ala the ProjectorCentral.com article). My best guess is that the paint is near an N6. Their website shows it is R-149, G-148, B-148. Not sure how accurate that is but it will be worth getting a screen up to watch something on. Like I said, I like to push the limits.

If I like the image on this screen, I'm sure I'll like the BW™ N6.4.
SW 'Gray Shingle' makes for a very neutral N6.

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post #18 of 96 Old 06-08-12, 11:11 PM
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Re: Making a darker Black Widow™

Also a very interesting color i was looking at in the PPG line of paints is Dover Gray 518-5 R:132 G:133 B:133 as it looks to be between N6 and N5 not sure if i am that accurate but it looks like it by the gray scale, i might see if i can get a sample of this paint as PPG is just a few blocks from me, but i not sure at this time when and if that PPG paint store gives out a sample size to buy.

But thought i would throw in this color for now as i still have to make the screen yet first and i am getting kinda ready to do that, hope this color is a positive and if not, then on to the next color.
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post #19 of 96 Old 06-08-12, 11:27 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Making a darker Black Widow™

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Starmaster wrote: View Post
Also a very interesting color i was looking at in the PPG line of paints is Dover Gray 518-5 R:132 G:133 B:133 as it looks to be between N6 and N5 not sure if i am that accurate but it looks like it by the gray scale, i might see if i can get a sample of this paint as PPG is just a few blocks from me, but i not sure at this time when and if that PPG paint store gives out a sample size to buy.

But thought i would throw in this color for now as i still have to make the screen yet first and i am getting kinda ready to do that, hope this color is a positive and if not, then on to the next color.
Interesting... , but unfortunately we haven't found the RGB values published by PPG to be very accurate. It might be neutral and it might not.
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post #20 of 96 Old 06-08-12, 11:31 PM
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Re: Making a darker Black Widow™

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Harpmaker wrote: View Post
Interesting... , but unfortunately we haven't found the RGB values published by PPG to be very accurate. It might be neutral and it might not.
I was kinda wondering that myself as to how accurate RGB values were, as i thought i read that somewhere here on the forums but wasn't sure, well was worth a try anyways..i will then check on other brand paints then..

Edit: Came across this color by Valspar paints and looks close to being a N5, color is Almost Charcoal 4008-2B Ultra Premium and i don't see any RGB values for it, but not sure if it is neutral as all the other colors in that line of paint are neutral it says, so this color in their Grays and Blacks section could be neutral..but the bad part is that the city i am in doesn't have a Lowe's yet as the next city to me does already..but is another color that might show promise.

Last edited by Starmaster; 06-09-12 at 12:29 AM.
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