Making a darker Black Widow™ - Page 3 - Home Theater Forum and Systems - HomeTheaterShack.com

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post #21 of 96 Old 06-09-12, 12:34 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Making a darker Black Widow™

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Starmaster wrote: View Post
I was kinda wondering that myself as to how accurate RGB values were, as i thought i read that somewhere here on the forums but wasn't sure, well was worth a try anyways..i will then check on other brand paints then..

Edit: Came across this color by Valspar paints and looks close to being a N5, color is Almost Charcoal 4008-2B Ultra Premium and i don't see any RGB values for it, but not sure if it is neutral as all the other colors in that line of paint are neutral it says, so this color in their Grays and Blacks section could be neutral..but the bad part is that the city i am in doesn't have a Lowe's yet as the next city to me does already..but is another color that might show promise.
The Valspar 'Almost Charcoal' sounds interesting. If the color swatch I found for it is true (125 RGB) it would be N5.2. I'll pick up a sample today.
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post #22 of 96 Old 06-09-12, 12:58 PM
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Re: Making a darker Black Widow™

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The Valspar 'Almost Charcoal' sounds interesting. If the color swatch I found for it is true (125 RGB) it would be N5.2. I'll pick up a sample today.
That would be awesome if it is near N5.2, i was gifted with very good color perception as i can see minor changes in color unless they are so close in color it would be harder to tell, but it has helped me in colors through the years..

Last edited by Starmaster; 06-09-12 at 01:04 PM.
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post #23 of 96 Old 06-09-12, 06:26 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Making a darker Black Widow™

I'll let you know how the paint samples I got today pan out tomorrow or Monday. I like to let the sample chits dry for an honest 24 hours before testing. Unlike what you may read on another DIY Screen forum ( ) you CANNOT judge the color of a paint when it's wet other than in the grossest terms.
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post #24 of 96 Old 06-09-12, 06:48 PM
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Re: Making a darker Black Widow™

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I'll let you know how the paint samples I got today pan out tomorrow or Monday. I like to let the sample chits dry for an honest 24 hours before testing. Unlike what you may read on another DIY Screen forum ( ) you CANNOT judge the color of a paint when it's wet other than in the grossest terms.
Sounds good and await the results of the latest testing and hopefully it will work out good.

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mechman wrote: View Post
Dover Gray should be pretty close. EasyRGB has it listed as 130 130 130. PPG has it at 114 114 117.
Looks like PPG is kinda whacked in the values indeed, yet the PPG i checked online shows the value at 132 133 133 for this Dover Gray, makes me wonder if different locations show different values which a person would think it shouldn't be different values, unless some locations are using a older software version in their pc for the colors.

Last edited by Starmaster; 06-10-12 at 11:03 PM.
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post #25 of 96 Old 06-11-12, 09:45 AM
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Re: Making a darker Black Widow™

Just an update. Still waiting for the Auto Air Aluminum to show up. I imagine it will be here today but painting BW™ N6.4 will probably have to wait a couple of days due to other chores that must get done.

I set up the projector temporarily on a cart so the image is throwing up to the screen. It's not in it's permanent ceiling mounted location just yet as I need to fabricate the mount.

I did however obtain and complete a screen using the Sherwin Williams Gray Shingle (SW 7670) using the Pro-Classic Smooth Enamel Satin base. I used a 4x8 sheet of tempered hardboard and primed with Kilz 2 (one coat) and then after drying, painted with the Gray Shingle (one coat). After several hours of drying, I can report that the Satin sheen warm spots just a little. On really bright scenes, I can see it. On dark scenes, you can't. The good news is that blacks are really black and whites are not crushed. For me, the 92" image is comfortable to watch. Since I have an HDMI splitter, I was comparing to my 42" LCD at the same time and the image is similar on both. Perhaps the warm spotting will diminish with a bit more curing time.
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post #26 of 96 Old 06-11-12, 01:59 PM
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Re: Making a darker Black Widow™

Nice to hear Pyrometman and nice work so far on this, and maybe with some more curing time that minor hot spotting will maybe go away.
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post #27 of 96 Old 06-11-12, 02:16 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Making a darker Black Widow™

Before I can do much more on this project I'll have to get more AAA-F too. Forgot to do that over the weekend.

The darker neutral gray a paint is the more it will tend to hot spot with a given finish. I'm thinking that the Sherwin-Williams paints in satin finish if used alone won't go much below N8 without hot spotting becoming a problem.

The results of my neutral gray tests this weekend are below. In a nutshell, I don't know if mixing the SW N5 with BB to make BW™ N6.4 would work or not unless it was purchased in a matte finish paint, which removes ProClassic from consideration.



The Valspar 'Almost Charcoal' might be neutral enough for some folks, but it is getting quite close to our limits for acceptable neutrality.




As you can see from the title this is our 5th attempt at tweaking the tint formula for a N5 using Valspar paint. We now have it so it is neutral. The next challenge is to get it in a quart and maintain neutrality (the Valspar sample jars are a different paint than the Valspar interior paint we use for screen mixes).

The tint formula is:
Valspar 8 oz. sample
Base 4
101 - 10.25
107 - 1.25
109 - 0.75
113 - 23




The match I got at Sherwin-Williams for a N5 gray is neutral enough, but it's quite dark for a N5 coming in at a true N4.3. Again, this paint should only be used to make BW™ N6.4 if the PPG 'Bermuda Beige' it is mixed with is in a flat finish. even then it might hot spot.

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post #28 of 96 Old 06-11-12, 03:30 PM
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Re: Making a darker Black Widow™

Harp,

Can the paint department at any Lowes translate the 8oz tinting to a full quart and get it correct? They also have color matching capabilities also so maybe that would work.

Can you give me a quick lesson on how the Valspar tinting system works? I'm used to the fractional ounce system.

Thanks for all your hard work.
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post #29 of 96 Old 06-11-12, 03:52 PM
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Re: Making a darker Black Widow™

Harp,

I was looking at EasyRGB and found Dunn-Edwards DE6377 "Boat Anchor", listed as:

R-102.68, G-103.03, B-102.01

Might this be useful?
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post #30 of 96 Old 06-11-12, 04:32 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Making a darker Black Widow™

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Pyrometman wrote: View Post
Harp,

Can the paint department at any Lowes translate the 8oz tinting to a full quart and get it correct? They also have color matching capabilities also so maybe that would work.
I asked a guy at Lowe's that hitherto has known what he was talking about that question and he said they could. The thing is that what they mean by a "good color match" is a good bit less specific than what that term means to us. I haven't done it yet (I will next time I get to a Lowe's, but that might not be for a week) so I can only say that you can't simply multiply the tint amounts by 4 and get a good match.

Quote:
Can you give me a quick lesson on how the Valspar tinting system works? I'm used to the fractional ounce system.
I would be happy to. The numbers to the left of the hyphen are the tint color and the numbers to the right are the tint amount in 48ths of a fluid ounce. I'll translate the formula for Valspar N5 #5 for you.

Valspar 8 oz. sample (this is the paint used)
Base 4 (the type of base used in that paint)
101 - 10.25 (BLACK tint, 10.25 48ths of an ounce)
107 - 1.25 (YELLOW OXIDE tint, 1.25 48ths of an ounce)
109 - 0.75 (RED OXIDE tint, 0.75 48ths of an ounce)
113 - 23 (WHITE tint, 23 48ths of an ounce)

The Lowe's tinting machines can process as little as 1/768th of an ounce of tint!

FYI, if you want to do your own color matching with neutral paints Golden makes them in N8 through N2. Michael's used to sell Golden paints, not sure if they do any longer or not. These are thick artist acrylics.

Quote:
I was looking at EasyRGB and found Dunn-Edwards DE6377 "Boat Anchor", listed as:

R-102.68, G-103.03, B-102.01

Might this be useful?
It might be if you wanted a N4.35 neutral gray and had access to that brand paint. Another thing that you have to watch out for is what Illuminant is the listed color based on. Artist colors are usually for the C Illuminant and not for the D65 Illuminant used for video. Luckily the more neutral a color is the less illuminant type matters (a true neutral gray is neutral for all colors of light).

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Thanks for all your hard work.
You're welcome!
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