Making a darker Black Widow™ - Page 4 - Home Theater Forum and Systems - HomeTheaterShack.com

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post #31 of 96 Old 06-12-12, 11:35 PM
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Re: Making a darker Black Widow™

Really interested in this formula! Wish I had the spare money to experiment and help out. I'll definitely be wanting to try a sample soon.

I'm running an elektra mix that should be between 7.5-8. Even with my jvc, I wanna go darker. Unfortunately there's just no substitute for light and reflection control! Blows my mind how reflections off the screen and white walls murder the blacks into oblivion!
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post #32 of 96 Old 06-13-12, 12:21 AM
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Re: Making a darker Black Widow™

To bad the 'Almost Charcoal' wasn't closer to neutral Harpmaker then it is, but nice work on this project thus far and was kinda hoping that the 'Almost Charcoal' would be a little better neutral color, the right combination will be found yet.
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post #33 of 96 Old 06-14-12, 09:31 AM
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Re: Making a darker Black Widow™

Harp,

Can you check your database for Dunn-Edwards DE6383 "BANK VAULT"? EasyRGB lists as 112.89, 111.39, 113.39

I have a Dunn-Edwards near me so if this is a decent match I would at least like to consider it.

I have the AAA on hand now and this weekend would be a good opportunity for me to complete the screen.

On a side note, the Sherwin Williams "Gray Shingle" in Satin sheen still warm spots after a few days of curing. As I have my projector table mounted, I am sure that when I ceiling mount that it would be a problem. Right now, the warm spot disappears "below" the lower edge of the screen and it isn't a problem. It would likely be in the middle of the screen after ceiling mounting.
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post #34 of 96 Old 06-14-12, 01:16 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Making a darker Black Widow™

Quote:
Pyrometman wrote: View Post
Harp,

Can you check your database for Dunn-Edwards DE6383 "BANK VAULT"? EasyRGB lists as 112.89, 111.39, 113.39

I have a Dunn-Edwards near me so if this is a decent match I would at least like to consider it.
My database? I assume you mean the different paints I have measured with my spectro over the years, and I have never tested any Dunn-Edwards paints since they are not available to me.

The color seems to be quite neutral if the real paint matches the numbers. If you want to try and see if you can get a sample jar, make up a sample chit and mail it to me; I'll take a reading with my spectro and let you know the results. If you're interested in doing this just PM me for my address and a description on how to prepare and mail the sample (it's easy and only costs a first class stamp and an envelope).

Quote:
I have the AAA on hand now and this weekend would be a good opportunity for me to complete the screen.

On a side note, the Sherwin Williams "Gray Shingle" in Satin sheen still warm spots after a few days of curing. As I have my projector table mounted, I am sure that when I ceiling mount that it would be a problem. Right now, the warm spot disappears "below" the lower edge of the screen and it isn't a problem. It would likely be in the middle of the screen after ceiling mounting.
Yeah, I made the mistake of getting some ProClassic in satin tinted to make BW™ with, but I doubt I'll do that now since I'm all but sure it would hot spot. The SW paints in satin finish and in N8 ('Unique Gray') did not hot spot for me, but it sounds like anything darker would.
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post #35 of 96 Old 06-14-12, 01:52 PM
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Re: Making a darker Black Widow™

Quote:
Harpmaker wrote: View Post
My database? I assume you mean the different paints I have measured with my spectro over the years, and I have never tested any Dunn-Edwards paints since they are not available to me.
LOL, I guess I made a poor assumption based on you quoting a Munsell value for the previous Dunn-Edwards paint that I mentioned. Sorry for that. It seems that Dunn-Edwards is only available out here in the west.

Quote:
Harpmaker wrote: View Post
The color seems to be quite neutral if the real paint matches the numbers. If you want to try and see if you can get a sample jar, make up a sample chit and mail it to me; I'll take a reading with my spectro and let you know the results. If you're interested in doing this just PM me for my address and a description on how to prepare and mail the sample (it's easy and only costs a first class stamp and an envelope).
I can stop buy the Dunn-Edwards store this afternoon and see what it takes to get a sample. If I can get one easily, then I'll PM you for directions for prep and mailing.

Quote:
Harpmaker wrote: View Post
Yeah, I made the mistake of getting some ProClassic in satin tinted to make BW™ with, but I doubt I'll do that now since I'm all but sure it would hot spot. The SW paints in satin finish and in N8 ('Unique Gray') did not hot spot for me, but it sounds like anything darker would.
Well, we've learned something new...and something for future DIYers to avoid. It's all good
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post #36 of 96 Old 06-14-12, 02:55 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Making a darker Black Widow™

Quote:
Pyrometman wrote: View Post
LOL, I guess I made a poor assumption based on you quoting a Munsell value for the previous Dunn-Edwards paint that I mentioned. Sorry for that. It seems that Dunn-Edwards is only available out here in the west.
To convert from RGB to CIELAB data you can use the online EasyRGB calculator or you can download a similar free program by them that runs on your own PC (OpenRGB).

The results of the online calculator are (it is important that you select the D65 Illuminant and the 2° Observer):
HTTP = #716F71
Web safe = #666666

RGB 0-255 = 112.89 111.39 113.39
RGB 0-FF = 70 6F 71
RGB 0-0.1 = 0.44271 0.43682 0.44467
CMY 0-0.1 = 0.55729 0.56318 0.55533
CMYK % = 0.441 1.764 0.000 55.533
XYZ = 15.526 16.159 18.039
Yxy = 16.159 0.31224 0.32497

CIE-L*ab = 47.182 0.985 -0.910
CIE-L*CH = 47.182 1.342 317.270
CIE-L*uv = 47.182 0.732 -1.382
HunterLab = 40.198 -1.404 1.532

Illuminant = D65
Observer = 2° (1931)



This paint would have a N value of 4.7 (the L* value divided by 10).
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post #37 of 96 Old 06-14-12, 03:10 PM
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Re: Making a darker Black Widow™

Quote:
Harpmaker wrote: View Post
To convert from RGB to CIELAB data you can use the online EasyRGB calculator or you can download a similar free program by them that runs on your own PC (OpenRGB).

The results of the online calculator are (it is important that you select the D65 Illuminant and the 2° Observer):
HTTP = #716F71
Web safe = #666666

RGB 0-255 = 112.89 111.39 113.39
RGB 0-FF = 70 6F 71
RGB 0-0.1 = 0.44271 0.43682 0.44467
CMY 0-0.1 = 0.55729 0.56318 0.55533
CMYK % = 0.441 1.764 0.000 55.533
XYZ = 15.526 16.159 18.039
Yxy = 16.159 0.31224 0.32497

CIE-L*ab = 47.182 0.985 -0.910
CIE-L*CH = 47.182 1.342 317.270
CIE-L*uv = 47.182 0.732 -1.382
HunterLab = 40.198 -1.404 1.532

Illuminant = D65
Observer = 2° (1931)



This paint would have a N value of 4.7 (the L* value divided by 10).
Harp,

Thanks for the explanation. I went ahead and picked up a sample during lunch. Sent you a PM to get details.

FYI:

Dunn-Edwards DE 6363 "Bank Vault" Interior Velvet base "M"
8 oz. sample tinting (48ths):
04-1.6875
08-1.6875
13-8.9063

They only make the samples in Velvet sheen (5-9% gloss).
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post #38 of 96 Old 06-24-12, 02:20 AM
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Re: Making a darker Black Widow™

Harp,

I have held off from sending you the sample of the Dunn-Edwards "Bank Vault". I've done a bit of reading about the development of BW™ and it is my understanding that the base paint has an influence on the performance. I don't want to attempt using anything other than the Valspar base paint for both the N5 and Bermuda Beige. Doing so would introduce an unwanted variable into this development.

I will hold off until getting my BW™ N6.4 painted to send you samples. I'll send the DE paint at that time too.

I had an idea that maybe we could try a neutral gray that is slightly lighter than N5 but already established as a neutral. I see on the sticky thread for neutral gray that there is a Glidden N5.2 (00NN 20/000 . . . "Grimmy's Grey"). Do you think that would that be acceptable?

I'm slowly getting around to putting together a new screen that is properly rigid (1x2 frame). My intended 16:9 diagonal is now approx. 95" due to using a thinner 3/4" border. I'm using a lumen rating of 1145 for my projector in the mode I am using ("Dark Room" with Eco mode ON).
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post #39 of 96 Old 06-24-12, 02:39 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Making a darker Black Widow™

Quote:
Pyrometman wrote: View Post
Harp,

I have held off from sending you the sample of the Dunn-Edwards "Bank Vault". I've done a bit of reading about the development of BW™ and it is my understanding that the base paint has an influence on the performance. I don't want to attempt using anything other than the Valspar base paint for both the N5 and Bermuda Beige. Doing so would introduce an unwanted variable into this development.

I will hold off until getting my BW™ N6.4 painted to send you samples. I'll send the DE paint at that time too.
No worries!

As for different paint brands affecting the performance of BW™, we haven't found it to cause a significant difference in performance. To illustrate what I mean I'll mention some extensive testing we did a number of years ago using AAA-medium instead of AAA-fine (don't use AAA-M because the flakes are too big). One of the properties of my test screens was that if I rubbed them with a latex or nitrile glove the aluminum flakes on the surface would flatten down and cause much more sparkle. I thought "Wow, that should add some gain to the mix!". I was amazed to find that it didn't add anything except sparkle! The images were not one bit brighter when compared side-by-side with a test panel that was left as-sprayed.

The thing that would probably cause a visible difference in performance would be if one base paint had more or less gloss that another.

Quote:
I had an idea that maybe we could try a neutral gray that is slightly lighter than N5 but already established as a neutral. I see on the sticky thread for neutral gray that there is a Glidden N5.2 (00NN 20/000 . . . "Grimmy's Grey"). Do you think that would that be acceptable?
That would be fine, but my Lowe's stores don't have that color in their database. Also, I doubt that a N0.2 difference in shade would have much of an effect on the final mix.

Quote:
I'm slowly getting around to putting together a new screen that is properly rigid (1x2 frame). My intended 16:9 diagonal is now approx. 95" due to using a thinner 3/4" border. I'm using a lumen rating of 1145 for my projector in the mode I am using ("Dark Room" with Eco mode ON).
BW™ N6.4 might be exactly what you are looking for.
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post #40 of 96 Old 06-27-12, 09:57 AM
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Re: Making a darker Black Widow™

Got my Bermuda Beige from Lowes. Here is a picture of the tint values for 1 quart:



I'm still in the hunt for the N5 paint. The guy working in the paint department in my local Lowes could not find the Glidden paint "Grimmy's Grey" in his database. As soon as I have the N5, I can paint the screen.

The permanent rigid screen is completed except for the paint and border.
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