Making a darker Black Widow™ - Page 8 - Home Theater Forum and Systems - HomeTheaterShack.com

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post #71 of 96 Old 03-21-13, 11:49 PM Thread Starter
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Don
 
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Re: Making a darker Black Widow™

Quote:
maxposure wrote: View Post
Thanks for the update.

I received the AAA earlier than anticipated yesterday, so I headed to Lowes and picked up the base paints. I used a 2:2:1 ratio to mix a quart of paint and used a 3/16 nap roller to lay on two coats with a couple hours separating them.

I put on the wall and used the AVS calibration videos to dial in the brightness and contrast. I am very impressed. The screen seems very neutral to me, no obvious issues with color push in any direction; and my blacks have never been better. Also no graininess or sparkling 12 hours in. In fact this looks much better than the original black widow application. That screen always has a 'shimmer' to it; I just expected that it was supposed to be that way! I can definitely see the aluminum working on an all white field but it doesn't seem to be obvious every time there is a solid blue sky.
Great to hear the new screen seems to be working to your satisfaction. It's a bit of a conundrum why your regular BW™ screen had a shimmer problem and the darker version doesn't. FWIW, it has ben my experience that colors in low-component count mixes such as we advocate on this forum are fairly color-stable after 12 hours of drying time, but it is still better to wait at least 24 hours before you do any real PJ calibration on them. The high-component count mixes advocated on another forum may not stabilize for up to a week, and will still continue to slowly yellow due to their polyurethane content.

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I will post some photos this evening. Any screens shots or patterns preferred? I know how to work a camera so if you have any pointers on grabbing the right exposure, I would be happy to take them.
Any family-friendly images you want to post would be fine. It's hard to tell anything about screen performance from taking photos of a single screen, but we here at HTS like "eye candy" as much as the next forum. To really get a handle on screen attributes it take a comparison image so we can see at least an "A/B" image of two screens reflecting the same image at the same time. That is when images like color or contrast bars are useful.

Having the camera set to AUTO is a good place to start for "screenies". I like to zoom into the image so that there is a small black "frame" around the image. Other than that, you can play with the cameras setting for ISO speed and exposure until the photo the camera takes is the closest to what you are seeing with your eyes. Be aware that it may not be possible to truly capture what you are seeing due to the camera not having the dynamic range of the human eye. This is not really a fault of the camera since mimicking the eye isn't really it's job. That may sound wrong, but think about it for a moment, most cameras are designed to produce the "best" quality image possible under a given situation. This means it corrects for a wide range of conditions that would lead to a less than stellar image such as mismatched color sources, low light situations, high dynamic range images (faces brightly exposed on one side and in deep shade on the other). Most digital cameras do quite sophisticated image processing before they store the image.
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post #72 of 96 Old 04-07-13, 04:03 PM
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Re: Making a darker Black Widow™

Sorry I am so late in updating the forum..... ya know.... life gets in the way.

Well I have a few screenies for you, but nothing magical. When I downloaded the images I realized that I had my ISO set too high. Except for the image noise, I feel that the imgages do a very good job of representing the picture. Ignore the small box in the center of my screen and the green light at the bottom center. That is light reflecting off my center channel which needs a new home.





My feelings on the screen after a week:
BW 6.4 has given me the best blacks I have ever seen from my Epson 8350, but of course it does sacrifice some of the pop from the whites. There is definitely a bit of a dullness to the whites when compared to my last BW screen, but not enough that it seems to bother me. I actually feel that I have a better dynamic range overall now that my blacks can get very dark.

Although the screen is dark there is plenty of brightness to the image at night, and I can get great ambient viewing during the day by bumping the PJ into Living Room mode. Absolutely no hot spotting what-so-ever.

No graininess on the images. Like I said before, I remember more of a shimmer on my old BW screen; its possible that I mixed that batch incorrectly. I can just barely see the aluminum flakes when I hold a flashlight right up on the screen.

Overall I am very happy, I do miss the slight brightness pop but I am just so pleased with my blacks and shadow detail that it is easy to forget about it. When using a stronger PJ like the 5020 or AE8000, I'm sure this formula could be really strong contender if you are doing a lot of ambient light viewing.
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post #73 of 96 Old 04-07-13, 05:56 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Making a darker Black Widow™

Thank you for sharing the screenies with us, but thanks even more for the detailed review of this screen mix.
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post #74 of 96 Old 06-02-13, 12:56 PM
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Re: Making a darker Black Widow™

I wanted to update the thread with some new information, as I just discovered that I made this screen using the new batch of AAA-F. I am going to guess that my screen came out mostly neutral because I mixed this with Valspar N5 concoction that Harp put up.

I stated previously that my new BW 6.4 screen did not have the occasional shimmer that my old BW screen showed. Now after evaluating my screen for a while, I never seem to see any minor reflectivity, not a single sparkle or shine on solid colors. I know we don't want to see these things normally but I remember that if I took a light source, like an LED flashlight, right up to my old screen I was able to see some of the aluminum reflecting. I did this when I first painted the BW 6.4 and felt that I could see a little. Two months later, if I take the flashlight to the screen, I see nothing but a matte grey surface.

I am wondering if this new formulation of AAA displays the same as the old.
Harp or Mech, have either of you done close up comparisons (microscope) to see if there might be a difference?

I guess it is possible that I mixed both batches incorrectly. I have plenty of unmixed paint left over. Would it make sense to mix the BB and N5 paints together and roll on a test sheet for a side by side comparison to see what amount of reflectivity I received from the AAA? Or will the results be so different that it would not be a fair judge. I am considering buying a calibration device. If either of you have a recommendation that won’t break the bank, I'd love to hear it.
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post #75 of 96 Old 08-21-13, 11:15 AM
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Re: Making a darker Black Widow™

First off, thanks to all of you posting helpful information to these boards! I am learning a lot thanks to your efforts and contributions.

I am hoping to get some help in reproducing the darker version of Black Widow here in Switzerland. I am dealing with significant ambient light in my media room, and hope this paint will help. I have access to a paint sprayer, and a half liter of AAA-F... so I guess I am half way there.

I have an Optoma HD67 and currently project a 230cm diagonal picture on a white wall. I had been considering purchasing Screen Goo or similar product, but local availability and price changed my mind. I recently came across a thread about Black Widow and decided to give it a try. My AAA-F shipped from the UK today, and I am very interested to hear if anyone can advise on what to buy as a mix.

I dont know a great deal about the technical measurements of paints, so if there was a way to describe to my local paint shop exactly what I need, that would be super helpful. Any tips or suggestions greatly appreciated.


Thanks!
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post #76 of 96 Old 08-21-13, 09:06 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Making a darker Black Widow™

Quote:
regdunlop wrote: View Post
First off, thanks to all of you posting helpful information to these boards! I am learning a lot thanks to your efforts and contributions.

I am hoping to get some help in reproducing the darker version of Black Widow here in Switzerland. I am dealing with significant ambient light in my media room, and hope this paint will help. I have access to a paint sprayer, and a half liter of AAA-F... so I guess I am half way there.

I have an Optoma HD67 and currently project a 230cm diagonal picture on a white wall. I had been considering purchasing Screen Goo or similar product, but local availability and price changed my mind. I recently came across a thread about Black Widow and decided to give it a try. My AAA-F shipped from the UK today, and I am very interested to hear if anyone can advise on what to buy as a mix.

I dont know a great deal about the technical measurements of paints, so if there was a way to describe to my local paint shop exactly what I need, that would be super helpful. Any tips or suggestions greatly appreciated.


Thanks!
Hello, welcome to the forum!

The base paint you use will be determined by the lot number of the AAA-F you purchased, it will be on the label close to the bar code. Can you get paint in NCS or RAL colors? These are color tinting systems used in England and Germany.
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post #77 of 96 Old 08-22-13, 02:08 AM
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Re: Making a darker Black Widow™

Thanks!

I forgot to mention that I will get the new formula of AAA-F... I had them email me the serial number: WDND08-90BS(1).

I am pretty sure I can get the RAL colors here in Switzerland, worst case I will be in Germany this weekend and can stop and get the paint there.

I had planned to do something about the ambient light... but I recently squashed a bug on my wall (beaming surface), and he took some paint with him so the ambient light became secondary to the missing paint on my screen and stepped up the timeline on this project!
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post #78 of 96 Old 08-23-13, 07:32 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Making a darker Black Widow™

Quote:
regdunlop wrote: View Post
Thanks!

I forgot to mention that I will get the new formula of AAA-F... I had them email me the serial number: WDND08-90BS(1).

I am pretty sure I can get the RAL colors here in Switzerland, worst case I will be in Germany this weekend and can stop and get the paint there.

I had planned to do something about the ambient light... but I recently squashed a bug on my wall (beaming surface), and he took some paint with him so the ambient light became secondary to the missing paint on my screen and stepped up the timeline on this project!
To get a mix very much like (actually identical to the naked eye) the BW™N6.4 originally developed at the beginning of this thread you would get a very low gloss water-based paint in the RAL color 7045 'Telegrey 1' and add the new AAA-F in the ratio 4 parts gray paint to 1 part AAA-F. Be sure to stir well and make sure the AAA-F is evenly dispersed into the gray paint.

For interest, here is a webpage that lists the RAL paint colors and codes, their names in a number of languages, and even the RGB values of the colors.

http://www.ralcolor.com/
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post #79 of 96 Old 08-25-13, 02:02 PM
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Re: Making a darker Black Widow™

Thank you so much Harpmaker! I was in Germany this weekend and the Obi shop had a computerized system to automatically blend and mix the exact color as I waited. I expect delivery of the AAA-F early this week, and plan to spray this coming weekend. The weather should be around 70 with low humidity... do you think I can do a coat in the morning and another in the evening?

I really had no idea what paint to use, and was ready to just go with the standard BW... so thanks again!
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post #80 of 96 Old 08-26-13, 10:31 PM Thread Starter
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Don
 
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Re: Making a darker Black Widow™

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regdunlop wrote: View Post
Thank you so much Harpmaker! I was in Germany this weekend and the Obi shop had a computerized system to automatically blend and mix the exact color as I waited. I expect delivery of the AAA-F early this week, and plan to spray this coming weekend. The weather should be around 70 with low humidity... do you think I can do a coat in the morning and another in the evening?
I assume you are rolling your paint and not spraying. When rolling, I would have to say to go by the directions on the can of gray base paint (it's 80% of the mix). When rolling, the first coat of paint NEEDS to be dried very well or it can literally peel off the wall and stick to the roller when doing the second coat!

Quote:
I really had no idea what paint to use, and was ready to just go with the standard BW... so thanks again!
Glad to be of help.
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